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 1997 Points Cult and Kabal

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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 06:04

Patrol Strife
Warlord: Succi w/razorflails, dark lotus toxin, precision blows, Spectacle of Murder.

HQ Succi w/Tri Whip and Blood Dancer.

Bloodbrides 10x w/Hydro Gaunts, Shardnet and Impaler, Razorflails on hekatrix with garland relic and PGL.

Plus one attack on all of the above.

9X reavers 3X blasters 3x grav talons. Plus one toughness.

6X Hellions 1x PGL Plus one toughness

Patrol Obsidian Rose
HQ Archon djinn blade ancient evil.

6 units of 5X warriors w/PGL, Shredder and agonizer.

HQ Drahzer
5x incubi

3X raider w/PGL
1X raider w/PGL and trophies
1X raider w/PGL, trophies, Shock prow
1x venom w/2x Splinter Cannons and trophies.

1xVoidraven w/missiles.

I know I committed blasphemy by not putting blasters on warriors. Shredders are blast weapons though. Should be handy against Marines and little green men. It's pretty clear what I'm doing but.....

5x dark lance
2x void lance
3x blasters
Splinter Cannons can help on tanks too w/toxins, or just kill monsters.


13X PGL
3X grav Talons
Possible fly by
Shock Prow
Void Mine
Spam mortals where needed.

Assault is a little hero hammer, but....

2 Succies, incubi and Drahzer, Archon and Hellions deal multiple damage.

Bloodbrides are weight of dice with 6 to wound doing some real severe rending. Flails get 10 auto hits w/relic.

6X shredders for blast (little green men) and wounds Marines on 3+ ...
Agonizers around because....let's face it, 3 attacks enemy fights last with an 8 point model isn't too horrible.


What do you think? Could I squeeze more killy out of this?
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 648
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 10:07

Argh!!! Isnt a Succubus with about 10 attacks, hitting and wounding on 2+, creating bonus hits on 6+
with AP-3 and 2D for a mere 75pts not enough? You have to rely on cheap cheats, for crying out loud?????

Btw, a different approach would be Heatlances and Splintermind on your reavers.

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When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.

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Glass Battleaxe
Kabalite Warrior
Glass Battleaxe

Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 11:17

Should point out that the Garland of Spite in the Bloodbrides unit only affects the Hekatrix, who can't take Razorflails - the stratagem specifically states it's the Hekatrix that gets the Relic, not the unit.

Also, I only count 12 PGLs in that list, not 13 as you state.

Other than that, the list looks decent.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 14:33

I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 15:56

@Zenotaph wrote:
Argh!!! Isnt a Succubus with about 10 attacks, hitting and wounding on 2+, creating bonus hits on 6+
with AP-3 and 2D for a mere 75pts not enough? You have to rely on cheap cheats, for crying out loud?????

Btw, a different approach would be Heatlances and Splintermind on your reavers.

My initial thought was to make everything t5 or t6 across the board, but if I'm spending that many points for a blaster or heat lance platform I better make sure the guns hit. Thanks for the input!
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 648
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 21:25

Thanks for the input? Thats it? I so hate you right now...

But hey!! For a simple Cheater, you got some Nerves. I can, at least admire that.
Here is another challenge: Win a match fair and square. Might take while, but is very satisfying...

_________________
When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.
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Patayou
Slave
Patayou

Posts : 14
Join date : 2021-04-26
Location : Clermont-Ferrand, France

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeTue May 25 2021, 22:41

I don't get it, what about this is cheating exactly ?
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 648
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 03:43

@Patayou wrote:
I don't get it, what about this is cheating exactly ?
The Razorflail Succubus is a cheat. Well, at least in my eyes...

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When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 05:11

It is all legal and above board, but taking Competitive Edge with a Glave and +1 damage and strength relic with +1 strength drug and Hyperstimm Backlash for a strength 8 AP-3 (4 with blade artist rolls) and getting to redo all fails isn't bad either. Just doing the math here....st3 +2 for Glave is st5 ap-3 damage 1, plus relic for st6 damage 2, plus drug makes st7 and Hyperstimm makes st 8 AP-3/4, damage 2....with redos.

Fun! Anybody got a tank they no longer need?
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Glass Battleaxe
Kabalite Warrior
Glass Battleaxe

Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 10:35

@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.
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Squidmaster
Klaivex
Squidmaster

Posts : 2117
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 11:18

@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.

Hate to say it people, but this is true.
Hekatrix and Wych are listed seperately on the datasheet, and given different options for wargear. The datasheet makes clear what a Wych can have, and what a Hekatrix can have, and those are different things.

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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 15:44

@Squidmaster wrote:
@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.

Hate to say it people, but this is true.
Hekatrix and Wych are listed seperately on the datasheet, and given different options for wargear. The datasheet makes clear what a Wych can have, and what a Hekatrix can have, and those are different things.

It makes clear only the Hekatrix can have certain wargear. However, it makes it clear that a wych can have the other options as long as there are 10 models. The way I always understood it is a Hekatrix is always a wych but a wych is not a Hekatrix.
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Glass Battleaxe
Kabalite Warrior
Glass Battleaxe

Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-11-16

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 16:44

@Into the darkness wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.

Hate to say it people, but this is true.
Hekatrix and Wych are listed seperately on the datasheet, and given different options for wargear. The datasheet makes clear what a Wych can have, and what a Hekatrix can have, and those are different things.

It makes clear only the Hekatrix can have certain wargear. However, it makes it clear that a wych can have the other options as long as there are 10 models. The way I always understood it is a Hekatrix is always a wych but a wych is not a Hekatrix.

No, that's not how it works. That's never been how it works. It doesn't work like that for any other army, so it certainly doesn't work like that for us.

Nowhere does it say 'a Hekatrix is a Wych, so it can take their weapons'. It specifically lists a 'Wych' for special weapons, NOT a 'Hekatrix' - they are different profiles for this exact reason.
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Into the darkness
Hellion
Into the darkness

Posts : 62
Join date : 2018-07-02

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 18:06

@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.

Hate to say it people, but this is true.
Hekatrix and Wych are listed seperately on the datasheet, and given different options for wargear. The datasheet makes clear what a Wych can have, and what a Hekatrix can have, and those are different things.

It makes clear only the Hekatrix can have certain wargear. However, it makes it clear that a wych can have the other options as long as there are 10 models. The way I always understood it is a Hekatrix is always a wych but a wych is not a Hekatrix.

No, that's not how it works. That's never been how it works. It doesn't work like that for any other army, so it certainly doesn't work like that for us.

Nowhere does it say 'a Hekatrix is a Wych, so it can take their weapons'. It specifically lists a 'Wych' for special weapons, NOT a 'Hekatrix' - they are different profiles for this exact reason.

I'll look into that. I mean, the unit is called "Wyches" so words as written you're incorrect. I totally get a standard Wych can't take an agonizer, but I'll have to do a little digging to see if a wych unit character is not considered a wych. When you say that's not how it works for any other army I don't know if that's true. There's lots of armies. I'll see if I can find a comparable in a posted tourney list of some sort.
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Glass Battleaxe
Kabalite Warrior
Glass Battleaxe

Posts : 110
Join date : 2017-11-16

1997 Points Cult and Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 18:26

@Into the darkness wrote:
@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
@Glass Battleaxe wrote:
@Into the darkness wrote:
I thought hekatrix could take the flails as she's a wych. It says if your unit includes 10 wyches, it doesn't specify she can't. I stole that idea from a winning tournament list online but if that's no longer valid please explain why.

I actually took a winning tournament list and tried to improve it. The original had 8 grotesques with liquifiers. I know they make good objective sitters but 9th edition is made to deal multiple damage to grots and quite frankly you get just as much spamming PGLs and Shredders for way cheaper.

I thought I had 13 PGLs too. Let me count. 5 raiders, 6 warrior squads, one on the wyches, and one on the Hellions. Yep.... that's 13.

As far as I know, Wych and Hekatrix are listed as different models in the unit on the datasheet, with the Hekatrix having it's own entry and wargear - hence why the options in the codex specifically list 'Wych' and 'Hekatrix' in how they're written. Only normal Wyches can take special weapons, and the Hekatrix is not a normal 'Wych' in this regard - she has her own set of unique weapons that she, and no other model in the unit, can take.

Also, you're right on the number of PGLs - the way the list is formatted, I think I missed the one on the Bloodbrides. My mistake.

Edit: following this post, I asked my local wargaming group for their opinion on the Hekatrix matter - they agree that the Hekatrix CANNOT take Razorflails, and that the list you've taken inspiration from has used it illegally. While the Razorflail Succubus is a perfectly legit option, the Razorflail Hekatrix is cheating.

Hate to say it people, but this is true.
Hekatrix and Wych are listed seperately on the datasheet, and given different options for wargear. The datasheet makes clear what a Wych can have, and what a Hekatrix can have, and those are different things.

It makes clear only the Hekatrix can have certain wargear. However, it makes it clear that a wych can have the other options as long as there are 10 models. The way I always understood it is a Hekatrix is always a wych but a wych is not a Hekatrix.

No, that's not how it works. That's never been how it works. It doesn't work like that for any other army, so it certainly doesn't work like that for us.

Nowhere does it say 'a Hekatrix is a Wych, so it can take their weapons'. It specifically lists a 'Wych' for special weapons, NOT a 'Hekatrix' - they are different profiles for this exact reason.

I'll look into that. I mean, the unit is called "Wyches" so words as written you're incorrect. I totally get a standard Wych can't take an agonizer, but I'll have to do a little digging to see if a wych unit character is not considered a wych. When you say that's not how it works for any other army I don't know if that's true. There's lots of armies. I'll see if I can find a comparable in a posted tourney list of some sort.

You're seriously overthinking something that is relatively simple - the unit name has NOTHING to do with which models can take which weapons. The Wych and Hekatrix are NOT the same. The Hekatrix and Wych are listed as two separate entries on the datasheet, and thus the weapon options specifically state which of the two they apply to - they either apply to a Wych, or a Hekatrix: they are NOT interchangeable.

I seriously believe you're just trolling me at this point - I've given you the correct answer. Other members have given you the correct answer. And yet you still feel the need to argue a point which has been proven wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: 1997 Points Cult and Kabal   1997 Points Cult and Kabal I_icon_minitime

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