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  A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager

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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

Posts : 53
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeSun May 16 2021, 19:58

Our "gunship" carries our big guns on a raid, let's take a look.

The Ravager
Possibly the most reliable way to boat dark lances you get 3 shots without move penalties and a reasonable amount of resilience. Which technically a squad of scourges is a cheaper way to bring more dark lances for less points they are significantly more flimsy and loose a measure of accuracy for moving. In kabals 3 shots with rerolls provide allot of accuracy and damage. Vs armies that rely on tough things like marines or custodes or having a codex (looking at you death guard) you will want every dark lance you can get.

The second weapon option is the disintegrator, its a great MEQ killer at damage 2 however vs the death guard the loss of one damage neuters the gun to not be worth it. Imo we have plenty of ways to deal with marines without needing to take disintegrators, as much as I love the gun it isn't as general purpose as it could be and so I've decided to drop the upgrade in favor of more lances. In short if you want something that is good vs all armies just take lances.

Most of the melee tricks that apply to raiders apply to ravagers, however it is worth noting they cannot pick up the coven tag.

All in all it's a simple vehicle, a minor invun save and 3 base weapons that have a minimum of 4 damage, excellent fire support.

Next time scourges!
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeSun May 16 2021, 23:36

The BH and OR obsessions have given Ravagers a bit of a boost with a free reroll to hit or wound but they are losing their spot in a lot of lists due to how good the Raider is, which also benefits from those rerolls.

Taking a Ravager also prevents you from realistically taking WWSWF as a secondary as your Ravagers will usually be your most expensive units and are fairly easy kills for most opponents if they have the incentive to kill them (eg denying your secondary).

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 A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager YhBv3Wk
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 648
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeSun May 16 2021, 23:42

I like the Dissi Ravager. Maybe its just my gut feeling, but it plays nice. 9 anti infantry shots across the table just, well, feel nice. Very Happy

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sekac
Wych
sekac

Posts : 591
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeMon May 17 2021, 04:46

@Count Adhemar wrote:


Taking a Ravager also prevents you from realistically taking WWSWF as a secondary as your Ravagers will usually be your most expensive units and are fairly easy kills for most opponents if they have the incentive to kill them (eg denying your secondary).

This is, by far the biggest issue with ravagers, but it actually hits harder. Not only does it make WYSWF unattractive, it makes Bring them Down very attractive. If your opponent also takes Thin Their Ranks, then each ravager is worth 3 secondary points, while making it hard to pencil on and easy 10.

It's a great platform, but ultimately terrible with regard to secondaries.

I'm planning on swapping out to scourges. If Raiding Force eventually loses the +2 CP, Realspace Raiders becomes more attractive and 4 DL scourges shoot better than a ravager and cost less.
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krayd
Hekatrix
krayd

Posts : 1096
Join date : 2011-10-03
Location : Richmond, VA

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeMon May 17 2021, 18:56

@Zenotaph wrote:
I like the Dissi Ravager. Maybe its just my gut feeling, but it plays nice. 9 anti infantry shots across the table just, well, feel nice. Very Happy

I like the idea of having at least one dissi ravager around, but I do think that they shouldn't cost more than DL ravagers.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 648
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeMon May 17 2021, 20:43

I agree. We have a weapon, only usable by 3 Units. And then its a bit unattractive, because of the costs.
They should exchance the DL and Dissi costs.

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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeMon May 17 2021, 20:58

Don't get me wrong the dissy is a good gun it's I've fallen out of love with it for the lance.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeMon May 17 2021, 21:38

I've found success with them! they're great in mirrors as well and gives assurance vs. T8 matchups.

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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 01:33

I don’t take dissies on ravagers, but Dark Technomancer Raiders with a dissie is great. We don't have efficient solutions to 3 wound models, nor reliable ways to dispatch MEq at range. It provides both!
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Eldur
Sybarite
Eldur

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 05:21

@sekac wrote:
I don’t take dissies on ravagers, but Dark Technomancer Raiders with a dissie is great. We don't have efficient solutions to 3 wound models, nor reliable ways to dispatch MEq at range. It provides both!

Remember, you can't take <Coven> Ravagers! They're <Kabal> only!!! (Edit: oh, you were talking about Raiders...)


Anyway! Count me on the Lance boat for our boats. I've waited long enough for them to become scary, so I'm not paying more points to get rid of them!
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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 06:21

@Eldur wrote:
@sekac wrote:
I don’t take dissies on ravagers, but Dark Technomancer Raiders with a dissie is great. We don't have efficient solutions to 3 wound models, nor reliable ways to dispatch MEq at range. It provides both!

Remember, you can't take <Coven> Ravagers! They're <Kabal> only!!! (Edit: oh, you were talking about Raiders...)


Anyway! Count me on the Lance boat for our boats. I've waited long enough for them to become scary, so I'm not paying more points to get rid of them!

You're not wrong, scraping the points for 2-3 dissie upgrades is hard to justify, and I'd never spend the points for non-DT ones. But overcharged, they are quite good against the meta right now.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 12:53

@sekac wrote:

You're not wrong, scraping the points for 2-3 dissie upgrades is hard to justify, and I'd never spend the points for non-DT ones. But overcharged, they are quite good against the meta right now.
Are we playing with the same Codex? We have a lot really cost effective units. So, scraping 15-30pts is easy.

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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 22:08

@Zenotaph wrote:
@sekac wrote:

You're not wrong, scraping the points for 2-3 dissie upgrades is hard to justify, and I'd never spend the points for non-DT ones. But overcharged, they are quite good against the meta right now.
Are we playing with the same Codex? We have a lot really cost effective units. So, scraping 15-30pts is easy.

In a 2000 point game, setting aside 15-30 points for a valuable upgrade is always easy, but that isn't the point.

Because we have a codex with a lot of cost-effictive options, those points can be spent in a number of valuable ways. Deciding that among the many ways points can be wisely spent, upgrading to Disintegrators is the option one wants to go with is harder. It would be a much easier choice if our codex wasn't so cost effective.

For a very direct example: post points adjustment, but pre-9th Ed codex, the decision to upgrade a ravager from lances to dissies was an easy one. It is harder now because the lance has increased in value, but not in cost, and many other upgrades compete with Disintegrators for how to spend the last few points.

Now do you understand what I'm saying?
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager    A returning players oppions on our units; The Ravager I_icon_minitimeTue May 18 2021, 22:17

Jup. I think, there was a little misunderstanding. Away from that, I still use the Dissi Ravager. Razz

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