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 Hellions in Cursed Blade

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Kalmah
Sybarite
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 17:13

I've been wondering lately about this: Putting Hellions in a Cursed Blade Detachment (+1S), do you think its a good idea to give them the +1S combat drugs? or the 6S in melee (3+1 (Obs) + 1 (CoDr) +1 from the Hellglaive)) is just too much or useless?
I know it will depend on what you're about to face, but on a regular basis, what are your thought?

Cause right now i'm hesitating putting them either on a Cursed Blade Detachment or Red Grief
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 18:01

Considering their special ability, I would go with +1A.

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 18:22

ho i like that indeed, S5 but with an additional attack.......nasty Wink
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fisheyes
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fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 18:37

I would agree with the +1A, or possibly randomly roll 2 drugs. Worst case would be +1WS and +1S?
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 18:45

You only get it, when you attack or heroically intervene, but it should work.
After all, Hellion can fall back and then attack, giving you effectively 4 S5 attacks with AP-1.
Good enough for me. Wink

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 18:51

indeed gotta use that ability fall back and charge a little Wink
stupid question cause i don't have my book with me: after falling back it can still shoot?
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 19:01

@Kalmah wrote:
indeed gotta use that ability fall back and charge a little Wink
stupid question cause i don't have my book with me: after falling back it can still shoot?
Only when they are 'Titanic'... lol!

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeThu May 06 2021, 19:09

but with the power level from our book right now, everything is titanic in our army no??? cheers
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fisheyes
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fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeFri May 07 2021, 19:44

XD It is if you consume any of the current 40K media.

You got Cruel Deception to fall back and still shoot (for 1 CP). If you went with Cult of Strife, they have a second "fall back and do things" strat, but cant recall exactly (I know you are set on Cursed Blade, just wanted to put this out there)

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeSat May 08 2021, 03:25

were starting to get somewhere!
i've built a list Cult only (and no CoS at all!!!)
i will share it soon on the appropriate topic Smile
But (for now) the hellions are in my Cult of Red Grief (love the advance and shoot and charge possibility with this Obsession)
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeSat May 08 2021, 11:25

What do they really get from red grief?
+2 movement when advancing isn’t much. When you are so fast already.
So it’s really that reroll on the charge that you’re competing with the +1 str.
Which seems underwhelming for these guys, etched I can get behind, but these guys are so fast already... just can’t see the case. (Open to convincing)
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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeSat May 08 2021, 19:41

lol i'm still not convinced, why the questions here Wink
what happens is that in patrol detachment, we are stuck with only 2 fast slots, so we can't do whatever we want with Reavers and Hellions competing for those slots.
And i hate to do 2 patrols with the same obsession (just for the flavor, but also because doing so will prevent me from having an additional Master Succubus and Bloodbrides)

For now, i think (no game in hand to validate, so its just speculations) that the Reavers enjoy more the +1S from the Cursed Blade (for a 5S in melee with the +1 from bladevanes), leaving me free to use the Splintermind Drug for them. Also Reavers already have M18 + super advance, so no need to boost that section, so they really gain nothing from Red Grief

On the other hand, the Hellions in Red Grief benefits from the advance and charge bonus from this obsession better as their splinter pods are Assault weapon, so in a turn, can move, advance and still shoot and charge (starting turn 2), but will need to use the +1S drug for them to really let them shine in combat. Also they are a little bit slower than Reavers with 14M, so the little boost from Red Grief is not that useless.

I personally think that Hellions do shine brighter in a Cursed Blade detachment, but again, its more a question of: who benefits better from the obsessions between Reavers and Hellions respectively, and in the end i think Reavers benefits a little bit more from Cursed Blade vs Red Grief and Hellions, even if Cursed Blade would be better, benefits nonetheless some from Red Grief.

Again, i hate to use 2 patrol detachment with the same obsession even if the results would be better (i'm not playing competitively so the results, even if important, are not what matter most)
So even if not the best mix, i think this can lead to some good stuff

Btw, i have posted my list in the proper zone, so feel free to leave your comments and input Smile
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeMon May 10 2021, 15:48

Hmm, I would argue regarding Hellions vs Reavers benefitting more from Cursed Blade.

Hellions are a primary CC unit, that happens to have some guns. Larger squad sizes, and can always fall back and charge

Reavers are a toolbox unit, that has some decent guns and some decent punches. But super fast (and 20% more expensive)

IMHO the Hellions benefit more from the CC buff from Cursed Blade.

Red Grief seems to be more of a specialty build if you are foccused on Wyches/Succubus and are not going CoS (for Reasons). Getting back in a Raider after killing a unit seems really cool (if unlikely to get triggered, and costing your Raiders going RG instead of the usual Black Heart), and the Blood Glave relic also looks really cool.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeTue May 11 2021, 01:56

i entirely approve that Hellions are better in a Cursed Blade detachment rather than a Red Grief, thats not the point, its more that with the proper combat drugs and the proper obsession, both of them can do their job a little bit better:
Reavers can have some good melee stats with good firepower with splintermind
Hellions can easily reach their target for melee all while shooting a little bit here and there, also for the eviscerating fly-by strats this can help too the extra+2 on advance

I'll give it a try soon and let you know Smile

but knowing that Hellions shine brighter in a Cursed Blade detachment, i'm already working on another list where the Hellions have this obsession, and next to them a Coven Detachment.
(Yah i love making list, so when i play a list usually i only play it once lol, i love to experiment a lot!!)
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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeTue May 11 2021, 10:11

Consider that Hellions gets the best from CoS, expecially the 4++ for 1CP after killing something.


That said, Cursed Blade is fine for them if you play them in small units (8-10 models), but I would always roll 2 drugs for them. Their profile is good enough already, 3 Attacks, S5, T4, 2 wounds.

+1 A is great, you will always trigger it with Hellions (fallback and fight)
+1 Sr is great, S6 is amazing expecially against mirrors (Raiders are T6)
+2" is great for a unit that LIVES between being in Blos and being in melee
+1 BS is the less usefull, but still nice when you can advance and shoot hitting on 3+ (don't forget the strat that poison veichles)
+1T is amazing, nothing to say.
+1 WS is great for Turn2 fights, and against everything that pulls of -1 to hit (ie. other Drukhari?)

Every drug is great on them, rolling 2 of them seems the best for Hellions and Reavers, expecially if you don't run the big blob CoS that can be a WWSWF unit (in that case you play a lot on the 4++ stratagem, and you will likely pick +1T).

Now the real boost about double drug: Hyperstim.Backlash! For 2 CPs you double your drugs for an entire round. That works on both your buffs. That''s amazing for me. I always roll 2 drugs, just try it. Smile

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeTue May 11 2021, 15:02

i really think i will try what you say..........cause indeed, there is no ''bad choice'' for drugs for them.
thanks @Cerve....and never thought about that Hyperstim Backlash! Smile imagine +1S and +1A with this strats..........WHAM!!!!
This random drugs will work perfectly in my new list Smile

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False Son
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False Son

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions in Cursed Blade   Hellions in Cursed Blade I_icon_minitimeTue May 11 2021, 19:33

@fisheyes wrote:

Red Grief seems to be more of a specialty build if you are foccused on Wyches/Succubus and are not going CoS (for Reasons). Getting back in a Raider after killing a unit seems really cool (if unlikely to get triggered, and costing your Raiders going RG instead of the usual Black Heart), and the Blood Glave relic also looks really cool.

Oddly enough, i'd consider Red Grief if you wanted to skip Raiders and dogpile your enemy. The real advantage is rerolled charges. You can somewhat make up the for the loss in melee power vs other Cults by not needing to Advance as often. There might even be an argument for using Splintermind and making shooty Reavers and Hellions.
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