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 FAQ - Our hopes and fears

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Vailex
Myrvn
DevilDoll
harlokin
Oaka
Zenotaph
sweetbacon
LordSplata
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Gelmir
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Count Adhemar
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 16:20

We're getting to the point where we can expect the first FAQ for the new codex so what are our hopes and fears?

Reavers to be confirmed at 20 points.

I think the razorflails/competitive edge combo needs a nerf. A simple clarification that the re-rolled hits are not doubled again would be sufficient in my view. GW are not known for subtle nerfs though so I fear the worst!

Venom cost - it's 85 at the moment (really, it just is) which is the same as the Raider. The two simply are not comparable at the same price point. I don't however suggest changing the points cost of either, at least not directly (see below).

The Dark Lance is 5 points less than a Disintegrator Cannon and is, in almost every case, the better option. I would swap the costs around. This would bump up the cost of the Raider to 90, which seems fine, but would also push the Ravager to 155 base, which I think is a bit steep and may require a small points drop.

I would also drop splinter cannons to 5 points. On infantry they're simply not worth 10 points due to the -1 to hit when moving. I also don't really feel they're worth 10 on a vehicle either. Dropping to 5 would make them more attractive on infantry and also make Venoms cheaper (a twin cannon Venom would be 75 vs the new Raider cost of 90, which would seem to be much more competitive with each other).

I think the Succubus might be hit with a points increase but hope it won't be too extreme. I don't want her to go from an autotake to a never take.

DT liquifiers are attracting a lot of attention at the moment but I think they're fine and should remain as they are.

Anything else?

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 16:45

There is some contention on related to the DT Liquifiers, if our Cruel Deception which allows a transport to fall back and shoot, also allows the unit inside to fall back and shoot.

I am flip-flopping on the DT Liquifiers, if they are OP or not. If you take 40 of them, it is pretty abusive. But every 9th edition has something brutal in it (DG Morty, DA Terminators, Marines). It could just be the Meta catching up to the new hotness. Honestly, dont know why they changed DT to work on the Hit roll instead of the Wound roll. They knew this interaction would happen. Which makes me wonder what else is waiting for us in the other 9th edition codices yet to be released...

Price point, obviously the Reavers go to 20. Succubi might go up, but I honestly think people just need to bring back some screening. Lances are fine IMHO
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 17:59

If they change DT liqs, the easiest fix is just dropping them back to S3. This means they wound vehicles on 5s, marines on 4s, and T3 on 3s which feels about right. The wording of DT is fine as it is.

I expect Succubi to go up quite a bit. Probably about 80.

Incubi should probably go to 20 points.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 18:20

I don't really expect point changes this early. Even the space marine adjustments were later than the initial FAQ.

From what I can tell the Court might see a change in unit size. I bet the points remain the same, but I'd be surprised to see that stay as 16. Maybe 8-10 max?

Dark Tecno liquifier does seem a bit much at the moment, but only when spammed as pointed out above. That said, GW doesn't seem to like spammed units so I could see it get shuffled a bit.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 19:11

Points changes are normally in chapter approved, not so much FAQ's unless seriously needed.
That being said, Reavers seriously need the price adjustment. All tournaments I attend force them to be priced that way already.

They will rule you cannot double an attack that's already been doubled.  Anyone playing competitive edge/razorflails to abuse this right now know this will change, they just dont care. Abuse it till you lose it I guess.

Venoms are a freaking joke. Want people to take them at this price point? fine. Change splinter cannons back to rapid fire 3. Boom, problem solved, people happy and venoms being used again.

Nothing the FAQ does at this point will fix beasts. they wont see the light of day when other stuff you can take leaves them in the dust.

Pretty much thats it. Our FAQ should fix reavers and the razorflail snafu, we can hope it changes venoms but I would expect just those two changes.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 19:26

If they kept Venom as is, but shifted to 5 points for a cannon, would that be feasible? It would drop the base version 5 points. But a dual cannon venom for 75 wouldn't be bad with current rules.
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 22:37

I'm honestly not bothered by Splinter Cannons being heavy weapons. Just look at the model, the way Kabalites carry them and all. What I do have a problem with is the statline. If you make the gun heavy, then give it a heavy statline.
Anyway, other than that I roughly agree with Count Adhemar. Venoms need some reason to take them, because right now the Raider for the same points is just better.

What I mostly want to see change though is the points for weapon options. Since 9th edition, everything is suddenly 5 points or a multiple of 5, but that is just unballanced.
One small example: The Scissorhand vs Electrocorrosive Whip on an Acothyst.
Both have poison 4+, AP -2, D1. But the Scissorhand gives 2 extra attacks, and the Whip multiplies your 3 attacks by 2 for a total of 6 attacks. And the Scissorhand costs 10 and the Whip 5 points? :S Explain this to me?

Before the codex hit, I thought they did this because it was just a rough estimate of what weapons would cost when the codex would hit, and they just didn't want to put too much effort in a temporary list of point cost. I thought this would be fixed in the codex. But it isn't. Some weapons are simply never worth taking because other weapons do the same, but better and cheaper.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 03:34

Razorflails + CE is the only thing I'm expecting to be FAQ'd.

no points changes at all, not this early

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 05:32

I wouldn’t expect points changes. The dust hasn’t settled yet.

Razor flail to be changed to doubles attack characteristic or similar.

The change I would love to see would be Lilith to D2. Won’t happen. But a drukhari can dream!
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 05:36

Oh, and I expect 14cp for all patrol detachments to get errated.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 14:58

The only change I expect is the Razor Flail Succubus to get nerfed. Doubt we’ll see points changes until next CA. A lot of hate and discontent over DT Liquifiers but I think they’re good but fine as they fit with the overall design philosophy of ratcheting up offense while still being fragile. Due to how much durability Covens lost, I think it’s fine as is. I also don’t think the extra 2CP for Patrols is fine as other armies have ways of getting extra CP for taking certain characters or traits.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 22:53

Hellions at 20
Succubus at 75
Raiders at 105

And that's all for point costs.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 00:47

I hope the huskblade gets a buff. After all, its 'the' iconic weapon of our Archons.
I know, its just a small thing, but, well, jeah, I just like it, since 5th Edition.

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Oaka
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 01:53

I hope they clarify detachments and allies.  I was excited to be able to take some beasts in a Coven detachment, or a Cronos in a Wych Cult detachment, but not everyone is in agreement that you can.  I also want to know what the heck is going on with Ynnari, because right now you lose PfP and obsessions even if you have a Drukhari Ynnari detachment.

I think they will fix Reaver points, the razorflail succubus, and starting with an extra 2 CP.

I fear they will change DT back to wound rolls.  It's not the Wrack use I care about, it's the newly invigorated Cronos that would suffer the most.  

I irrationally fear that Wyches will go back to 12 points, but it's far too early to start tweaking points costs, right?
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 08:31

Points aren't normally addressed with FAQs, unless they are printed wrong....as with the Reavers.

The Razorflail madness will be addressed.

Switching DT to wound rolls seems like an easy fix.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 11:06

Only the ridiculous succubuss razorflail combo and reaver clarification are needed at this point
There will def NOT be any other point adjustments yet, and imo we might appear strong but we are comparable to the other 9th edition codexes so we need more releases to see what needs adjustments...
The biggest problem right now imo is that the codexes are releasing at a snails peace and that hurts the game alot, i dont understand how a multibillion company of this caliber cannot get their crap together and just relase the damn rules faster so that people can have fun...
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 14:00

Global pandemics on top of a political nightmare that's reshaping trade with global partners?

commandersasha, harlokin, TheBaconPope and Burnage like this post

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Vailex
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 17:38

I am expecting Reavers to 20 pts which is completely fair and deserved. 10 pts is broken. Dont play them at 10 pts, your disappointment will be your fault. Id be surprised to see any other point changes

I expect Razorflail succubus with competitive edge to be nerfed. Maybe some clarifications on some rule ambiguity and that would be about it.
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Vailex
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 17:39

@LordSplata wrote:
Oh, and I expect 14cp for all patrol detachments to get errated.

Ya i agree. This will get nerfed.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 20:18

What are everyone's thoughts if they DO NOT address Reavers points in the FAQ? Would you be open to playing them at 10ppm?
I agree they should and will be addressed.
Razorflail Succubus will be clarified.

I don't really see the need for DT to change or why it would since they did just change it and make it all consuming.
I do not see other points being adjusted, even on the Succubus.

One thing I could see is them adjusting Drazhar's keywords so he does not benefit from his own aura. It is a rarity that he does benefit, so I would not be surprised if they clarify that or change his KEYWORD, though I hope they do not because him benefitting is befitting him and makes him a monster. Plus, he did just go up in price, so I am hopeful they leave him alone.
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 25 2021, 21:55

@SCP Yeeman wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts if they DO NOT address Reavers points in the FAQ? Would you be open to playing them at 10ppm?

I am currently playing Reavers at 20 points, and they are well worth it. If GW don't address the issue (assuming there is one) at all, then I'll probably bite the bullet and play them as 10 points per model.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 26 2021, 00:13

Can't see it happening but if they did for some reason not change Reavers to 20 ppm then I would have to assume that they genuinely did mean for them to be 10 ppm.

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FAQ - Our hopes and fears YhBv3Wk
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 26 2021, 11:23

If they don't address Reavers at 10 ppm I will not play the faction at all. It is already boring, just crushing every opponent with no challenge at all. If they don't fix them I will parking Drukhari for any other most appealing army. Which would me make kinda sad because DE are my spiritual army. But it is a game, and if the game just stop being fun, well...
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 26 2021, 11:27

I’d also like an FAQ on dark creed, is there a limit to the negative ld ?
It used to be -3 but that seems to have gone away
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ - Our hopes and fears   FAQ - Our hopes and fears I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 26 2021, 11:57

@LordSplata wrote:
I’d also like an FAQ on dark creed, is there a limit to the negative ld ?
It used to be -3 but that seems to have gone away

It's an Aura so it's just a flat -1, no stacking.

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