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 No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 21 2021, 10:26

Page 53 of our codex says that:

Each Kabal, Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven has an associated Relic. If your army is led bу
а <KABAL> WARLORD, <WYCH CULT> WARLORD or <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> WARLORO model from one of the Kabals, Wych Cults or Haemonculus Covens named in this section, you can select this Relic instead of those on pages 74-75.

Does it mean that if your warlord is for example Drazhar, so he is not Kabal, Cult or Coven model, you can’t take an associated relic from any specific sub faction like the Writ of the living muse?
If so, does it work only for free relics or we can take our lovely Vexator mask via prizes of the dark city stratagem?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 21 2021, 10:57

I think you may be right. The issue is that the faction-specific relics are not described as Artefacts of Cruelty. Prizes from the Dark City allows you to give characters an Artefact of Cruelty, not a relic.

You can do it in a Realspace Raid but then Drazhar can't be your warlord.

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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 21 2021, 17:18

That is how I understand it also.

But this book is strange, and we will see how the FAQ shakes out.

Current theory is that you can mix detatchments, without breaking your chapter tactics.

Like Wyches in a Coven detatchment, and the Coven still gain their DT bonus (but wyches dont get anything).

Very odd/exciting days we are living in.
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 01:21

The mixed detachment is a bit odd, but looking at beasts, I hope so. They are not Cult units. So a Cult of Strife Detachment cannot include beasts. However, it looks like a regular Wych detachment can include beasts. Appears leggy based on the app army builder. Might be wrong. Who knows.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 08:21

Not sure why people think mixed detachments is so odd. We've had 5 codexes thus far and in 4 of them we were/are able to mix detachments. 8e was the odd one out, not the standard!

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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 19:58

I think I'm more confused by how obsessions work with the mixed detachment. It seems quite a bit different than other 8th/9th codexes. I'm happy with the idea of mixing though.
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 22:21

page 74 from codex. Read the first 3 parapraphs. Every sentence alternates using "relics" and "artefacts of cruelty" implying that it is the same thing. Also in book of rust the cult of strife specific relics are also called artefacts of cruelty specifically.
Thus for me its clear as day that cou CAN take faction specific relics with the prizes from the dark city stratagem

Edit: actually just reread the stratagem and it also calls them relics what are we even talking about
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 22:35

I think you're right RAI but RAW none of the faction-specific Relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty and Prizes only allows you to give a character an Artefact of Cruelty. The CoS relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty however.

Suspect this needs a FAQ.

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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 22:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I think you're right RAI but RAW none of the faction-specific Relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty and Prizes only allows you to give a character an Artefact of Cruelty. The CoS relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty however.

Suspect this needs a FAQ.

thats the thing reread the stratagem it calls them relics as well

Artifacts of cruelty=relics and vice versa in the drukhari codex i think you can substitute the one for the other its the same thing
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 22:53

The stratagem mentions relics and artifacts of cruelty. But not interchangeably.

You can have an artifact of cruelty.
You can't let a model have a relic it can't have (I'd read that as a Ham can't have Triptych Whip)
All models in army must have different relics.

They are using precise language for a subset of relics and general boiler plate language for relics in general. If they didn't use Artifacts of Cruelty specifically, it would open up really weird things like pulling in space marine relics or something. And while ridiculous... It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried it.
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 00:21

@DevilDoll wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
I think you're right RAI but RAW none of the faction-specific Relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty and Prizes only allows you to give a character an Artefact of Cruelty. The CoS relics are referred to as Artefacts of Cruelty however.

Suspect this needs a FAQ.

thats the thing reread the stratagem it calls them relics as well

Artifacts of cruelty=relics and vice versa in the drukhari codex i think you can substitute the one for the other its the same thing

All Artefacts of Cruelty are Relics but not all Relics are Artefacts of Cruelty, although I suspect they are supposed to be.

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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 20:05

I don't want to be that guy, but Actually I do

All this could have been avoided if we would have gotten one codex with one army
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 00:54

@AzraeI wrote:
I don't want to be that guy, but Actually I do

All this could have been avoided if we would have gotten one codex with one army

I want to be that guy and we've got 1 codex with 1 army.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 15:49

I think this is more down to bad editing than any design flaw. They just needed to ensure that they use the term 'Artefact of Cruelty' whenever they are referencing a relic rather than trying and failing to use them interchangeably.

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PostSubject: Re: No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord   No Vexator if Drazhar is warlord I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 24 2021, 19:30

Sure it's down to editing, but simplifying things would reduce the number of mistakes drastically
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