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 Kabal of the Poison Tongue

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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Join date : 2020-08-21
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PostSubject: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 02:18

Hi all!
This is my first ''serious'' list i build, what i mean by ''serious'' is a list where i don't just want to experiment the game as a whole, but where i want to play with friends and win/lose, have some fun.
feel free to leave your comments as i am here to learn Smile

this is an export from GW app's, so only the options are written (something they should change IMO)


Drukhari 1
Drukhari - Strike Force - Grand Tournament ( 11CP - 2000PT - 0PT )


Drukhari Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 2000PT )
SUB-FACTION: Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue

HQ
WARLORD: Archon (80) Agoniser
TRAITS: Hatred Eternal
RELICS: Soul-seeker
LORDS OF COMMORRAGH UPGRADE: Splintered Genius

Archon (65) Agoniser
RELICS: Parasite’s Kiss

Drazhar (135)

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (110)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Splinter cannon
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

Kabalite Warriors (220)
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Splinter cannon
4x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
13x Kabalite Warrior

Kabalite Warriors (110)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Splinter cannon
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

ELITES
Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

FAST ATTACK
Scourges (90)
1x Solarite: Blast pistol, Power lance
4x Scourge: Shredder

Scourges (110)
1x Solarite: Blast pistol, Venom blade
4x Scourge: Blaster

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager (155) Disintegrator cannon, Chain-snares, Shock prow

Ravager (155) Disintegrator cannon, Chain-snares, Shock prow

Ravager (155) Disintegrator cannon, Chain-snares, Shock prow

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (100) Chain-snares, Splinter racks

Raider (100) Chain-snares, Splinter racks

Venom (90) Splinter cannon, Chain-snares

FLYER
Razorwing Jetfighter (165) Splinter cannon

STRATAGEMS
Prizes from the Dark City (1CP)

Total Command Points: 4/15
Reinforcement Points: 0
Total Points: 2000/2000

i intend on putting 10 kabalites and 1 Archon in each Raider, one squad being Trueborns.
The Venom is for Drazhar and a squad of 5 incubis
Scourges will all be for deepstriking at the proper moment
5 Incubis left will be in reinforcement (did not add the reinforcement points in the app before the transfer)

so again feel free to leave your comments, i don't know at all what i will face, so i try to do lists with a little bit of all around answers, and nothing too competitive in mind.
Big thanks in advance!

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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 08:10

You don't need Shock Prows and Chain Snares on Ravagers, as they should be nowhere near close combat.

You really need Grisly Trophies on any transports that will be near/carrying your Incubi and Drazhar.

Razorwing Jetfighters look lovely, but I don't really rate them at the moment, I'd take Mandrakes instead to be able to apply pressure early. I would think about dropping the Blasters on your Scourges for Heat Lances.

An option I would seriously consider is using Reavers with Heat Lances instead of the Scourges. They would lack an Obsession for being in a Kabal detachment, but would still get PfP and Combat drugs.

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 13:49

big thanks for the comments, really helpful!
Especially regarding the grisly trophies!
I though of using Ravagers to do the maximum of damage, but i think you are right about the shock prows and chain snares, and by removing them, i will refund the points for the grisly trophies.

The razorwing i was thinking of throwing it early to remove some key elements and draw the attention while i get into position with the remainder of my troops, but i think you are right using the mandrakes as it will save me some points and overall will do the same job, just in another fashion.

But i will need some clarification about the Blasters vs Heat lance for Scourges and Reavers, being heavy and being put on mobile units, the -1hit roll would hurt no? or its just a matter of points?

Again, a huge thanks, really helpful comment Smile
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 14:44

Scourges in 8th were commonly equipped with Haywire, hitting on 3s and wounding on 4s. With Heat Lances, you would be hitting on 4s, but wounding on 2s or 3s. So, the order is just reversed.

Blasters are good, but Heat Lances do considerably more damage, and if the target has any source of -1 to hit (cloud of flies, miasma, lightning fast reactions, mirage launchers, smoke screen, hard to hit, or dense cover), the Heat Lance penalty is already capped.

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 15:25

@Kalmah, I am going to give you a few pointers for building DE lists. Feel free to disregard my comments, I am by no means an expert of the 9th edition codex, just some dude who has played DE since 7th edition.

I would keep the RWJF for the first game. If you have the model, it does decently scoring you Engage on all Fronts, and can snipe out a character if the enemy doesnt screen things too well. Just note that it does not benefit from Obscuring (aircraft), so it will probably go down quick. Try to do a threat-overload style so that the enemy needs to decide between killing the RWJF and some Boats/Monsters that want to be targeted by the same weapons.

Please note that Heavy only affects Infantry. Reavers are not Infantry, but Scourges are.

I G2G, but will give you a little more advice later today Wink

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 15:55

Part 2:

You have doubled up your relics on both Archons, so the Master Archon is probably actually holding the Djin Blade?

Going with the Battalion may not be the best choice, a double Patrol for the same Kabal would net you +2 CP, which you would really enjoy with all our neat new strats (or afford the increased CP for Fire and Fade).

You may be lacking in Anti Tank fire (this is Meta dependent, so up to you). I would REALLY recommend getting more Dark Lances into the list. Those Dissie Ravagers are still good, but Incubi are now able to perform the same role for cheaper (S5, AP3, D2 weapons). I would suggest turning 2 of those Ravagers into Lances, just for the Anti Tank role.

On the same note, your Warrior squads are a little unspecialized. I know your trying to maximize the poison for the Kabal, but it would be a decent idea changing the 10 man squad heavy weapon over to a Dark Lance to synergize with the Blasters.

Similarly, the 20 man squad may want some more synergy. Those Blasters dont mesh well with the squads tactics (which I assume involves sitting in the Webway, poping out into a back corner and clearing infantry). It may be worth switching the Blasters to Shredders to help with that role.

The most important part of a DE list would be the turn 0-2 plan. Deployment is key, and the Redeploy strat will be awesome. The ol' bait and switch, Ravenguard style will be very cool. Dont forget you can deploy that big warrior blob along the front lines, then throw it into reserve (not sure if you can Webway with it, some research may be needed). If you are throwing your Incubi up mid-field for a Turn 2 Charge, make sure they are either untargetable or are part of a "threat overload" strategy. RWJF would help with that threat overload.

Most importantly, have some fun and let us know how the list performs! Ive been having difficulty holding onto objectives, which has lead to inclusions of Wracks. They work pretty well, but would not fit into your Kabal style list.

EDIT: Dont forget that Trueborn cost points, which dont seem to be included. Also, there are a lot of random upgrades (like the Solarites and Transports), you may want to consider trimming that fat after you give everything a try

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 17:05

@harlokin good point the -1 to hit cap, thanks for the info, i'll definitely take it into account
especially when taking into account the point @fisheyes raised regarding the heavy weapons not affecting the Reavers, so for sure Heat Lance will enter my list (and its a pointwise bargain vs blaster)
Maybe my Scourges will be equiped 2x Blasters and 2x Heat Lance while my Reavers will include 3x Heat Lances.

I think i will try the RWJF as mentionned by @fisheyes as i already have it (and i think the Poison Tongue obsession will apply on the poison weapons of the jet?) and another game i'll try to replace it with Mandrakes if i'm not satisfied by the results.

Huge thanks to you @fisheyes, really helpful (and to be frank, you're one that i follow the most here on this forum cause i like your comments and arguments, they are really constructive)....(as well as you @harloquin lol)

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 17:11

exellent part 2 @fisheyes.........definitely will have to go back to the list building tonight! cause all the points makes senses.

About the trueborn , i dont know why, the app wont let me apply it, always saying: Archon already chose this option.....will have to figure it out!

My ravagers are already all equiped: 2x Dark Lance 1x Disintegrator (but the app only shows the options, so only shows the Dissie)
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 18:05

lol don't know why i was so excited for the Reavers with Heat Lance, i dont even have one in my list........totally forgot they are from the Cults lol..........my bad!
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 18:47

@Kalmah wrote:
lol don't know why i was so excited for the Reavers with Heat Lance, i dont even have one in my list........totally forgot they are from the Cults lol..........my bad!

While they are Cults, you can still put them in a Kabal detachment. They would not get an Obsession, but they keep PfP and drugs. So you would get a BS 2+ Heat Lance platform...plus their mobility.

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 20:22

so true! now we can mix and match anything, only they won't receive the obsession..........i'm not intending to go there for now, but in a future, maybe! (i love it when my armies have a little bit of lore linked to them, not just the best list possible). A little bit why my list is really poison focus, to really reflect their specialty as if they were truly the lords of poison!
but really an interesting point to put in my arsenal!! Smile
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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 13:56

following your recommendations @fisheyes and @harlokin , here is the revamped list i've come up with:

Drukhari 1
Drukhari - Strike Force - Grand Tournament ( 12CP - 1945PT - 55PT )


Drukhari Patrol Detachment ( 0CP - 995PT )
SUB-FACTION: Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue

HQ
WARLORD: Archon (65) Agoniser
TRAITS: Hatred Eternal
RELICS: Soul-seeker

Drazhar (135)

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (115)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Dark lance
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

Kabalite Warriors (200)
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Splinter cannon
4x Kabalite Warrior: Shredder
13x Kabalite Warrior

ELITES
Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager (140)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (95) Splinter racks

Venom (85) Splinter cannon

Drukhari Patrol Detachment ( 0CP - 950PT )
SUB-FACTION: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

HQ
Archon (85)
TRAITS: Famed Savagery
RELICS: The Djin Blade
STRATAGEMS: Tolerated Ambition
LORDS OF COMMORRAGH UPGRADE: Splintered Genius

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (115)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Dark lance
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

FAST ATTACK
Scourges (100)
1x Solarite: Blast pistol, Venom blade
2x Scourge: Shredder
2x Scourge: Splinter cannon

Scourges (110)
1x Solarite: Blast pistol, Power lance
2x Scourge: Blaster
2x Scourge: Heat lance

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager (140)

Ravager (140)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (95) Splinter racks

FLYER
Razorwing Jetfighter (165) Splinter cannon

STRATAGEMS
Prizes from the Dark City (1CP)
Tolerated Ambition (1CP)

Total Command Points: 2/14
Reinforcement Points: 55
Total Points: 1945/2000


as you can see i splited my Battalion detachment in two separates Patrol detachment.
I could have stuck with Poison Tongue, but by spliting my units the way i've done, the poison is less attractive for this detachment. For now i chose Flayed Skull as i have some flying models and everything is inside a transport.
i'm still hesitating tough between Flayed Skull and Obsidian Rose for this Detachment.......what are your thoughts?

note that i've left some points on the table as i intend on upgrading my 2 archons and having one Trueborn per Detachment (this is something i can do?)


Last edited by Kalmah on Thu Apr 15 2021, 15:06; edited 1 time in total
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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 15:06

The people at Goonhammer already pointed out that you can get a better damage output with a custom obsession: Merciless Razorkin plus Tortuous Efficiency (exploding 6s on splinter weapons, plus blade artist at shooting). Maybe you should take it into consideration, as you would be getting an AP bonus on all your weapons (instead of ignore cover) and extra poisoned hits (instead of +1 to wound) at the same time, instead of choosing between one bonus or another.

Edit: and then, you can try with an Archon + Djinn Blade + Soul Thirst (the dracon) and a Master Archon + Power Sword + Consummate Weapommaster (add maybe the Helm of Spite for countering psykers). And Blast Pistols too.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 15:14

@Eldur thanks! i looked at those custom obsessions and some are really tempting indeed.
But you're not talking about changing Poison tongue with what you suggest? you're talking about the other detachment right? The ''Rifle Artist'' obsession would indeed be really nice for my second detachment, but all the splinter weapons are almost in my Poison tongue detachment.......unless i move some things there and there or find another obsession that would mix well with the ''Rifle Artist'' one........interesting!! Smile
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 15:53

Dont forget that you lose the Poison Tongue redeploy strat if you go for the Custom Kabal.

But I think you got the basic list figured out here. Some test runs will be required Wink

Those points on the scourge sgt weapons would be better spent elsewhere, but I assume that is how the model is built?

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 17:12

thanks @fisheyes
i'll give a try with this list before anything else, and then i'll see what went wrong and what did perform well.
And for sure i want to play with the strats of redeploy from Poison Tongue! seems so fun and soooooo Drukhari!

for my Scourge, they are indeed built that way, but in my circle of friends we are not afraid to proxi stuffs if needed, it just needs to be clear.
i could indeed remove their options and add some Grisly Trophies to some of my ships (especially the Venom carrying Drazhar and friends)
but other than that i don't know where i should put the remainder of points....

Just to clarify, i've read it in the Codex but the App won't allow me to do it: i can have one Master Archon per detachment right? and for each detachment with a master Archon i can have one unit of trueborn right?
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 19:31

I'd look for a some spare points for Grisly Trophies on the transport carrying the Incubi; it has nice synergy with their Tormentors rule.

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 20:12

I cant recall if its one Master per detatchment, or per Kabal. I think its per Kabal, but I could be mistaken.

Easy solution is you switch one of the Kabals over to @harlokin 's custom Kabal, thus unlocking the second Master/Trueborn.

People are enjoying the PGL on various units/transports. Those would probably be better than a 6" pistol and CCW on your scourges. They would allow your Raiders to Advance + Fire and Fade for extra movement (they are assault weapons, unlike our new Dark Lance/Dissie).

You really dont want to mix guns on your Ravagers. With only 3 shots, it can be hard to get something thru a 4++ save. 2 shots are even harder.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 16 2021, 15:17

back again with some minor changes to the list, but this time i think i'm pretty close to what i will actually play Smile
Remember that i use the GW app and there are some minor issues, like it only shows the options and for an unknown reason i can't choose my favourite retinue nor add another Master Archon even if not in the same detachment and not from the same kabal.....tonight i'll write to GW to see if it can be fixed

Drukhari 1
Drukhari - Strike Force - Grand Tournament ( 12CP - 1945PT - 55PT )


Drukhari Patrol Detachment ( 0CP - 1020PT )
SUB-FACTION: Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue

HQ
WARLORD: Archon (80) Agoniser
LORDS OF COMMORRAGH UPGRADE: Splintered Genius
TRAITS: Consummate Weaponmaster
RELICS: Soul-seeker

Drazhar (135)

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (115)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Dark lance
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

Kabalite Warriors (200)
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Splinter cannon
4x Kabalite Warrior: Shredder
13x Kabalite Warrior

ELITES
Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager (140)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (100) Shock prow, Splinter racks

Venom (90) Splinter cannon, Grisly trophies

Drukhari Patrol Detachment ( 0CP - 925PT )
SUB-FACTION: Kabal of the Obsidian Rose

HQ
Archon (75) Blast pistol
TRAITS: Hatred Eternal
RELICS: The Djin Blade
STRATAGEMS: Tolerated Ambition

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (115)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Dark lance
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior

FAST ATTACK
Scourges (90)
1x Solarite
2x Scourge: Shredder
2x Scourge: Splinter cannon

Scourges (100)
1x Solarite
2x Scourge: Blaster
2x Scourge: Heat lance

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager (140)

Ravager (140)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (100) Shock prow, Splinter racks

FLYER
Razorwing Jetfighter (165) Splinter cannon

STRATAGEMS
Prizes from the Dark City (1CP)
Tolerated Ambition (1CP)

Total Command Points: 2/14
Reinforcement Points: 55
Total Points: 1945/2000

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 16 2021, 17:23

Looks good buddy. Now for the hard part, getting some games under your belt!

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 16 2021, 23:47

thanks to both of you for your help (including @Eldur) for your time and your precious comments.
I'll keep you informed about the results, but don't expect anything for a few weeks as i don't play often because of the pandemic

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Kabal of the Poison Tongue   Kabal of the Poison Tongue I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 17 2021, 08:09

I really hope that you can start playtesting and improving your list from experience very soon!

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Eldur project log for Dark Eldar and Eldar

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