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 Reaver squad size?

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Gherma
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dumpeal
commandersasha
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Fauxmonculus
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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 07 2021, 12:56

I only have six Reavers (including two with Heat Lances) but I'm thinking of more.

Are they best used in large squads or as multiple smaller squads? I currently run them all as a single squad, but while they're fun they don't seem to achieve a great deal.
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 07 2021, 13:29

10 is obvioulsy the most efficient for EFB, but you might find it tricker to hide.

I'm liking the look of units of 6 as a good compromise.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 07 2021, 13:54

Honestly, it depends on your Fast Attack slots. You only get 2 in a Wych Cult Patrol (AKA Raiding Force), and there are a lot of good stuff fighting for those 2 spots (Reavers, Hellions, Beast Packs, Scourges, etc).

I personally think the sweet spot is 9, but I am not the most competent Archon Razz
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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 14:43

Thanks for the replies.

As a follow-up question, do you find the grav-talon or cluster caltrops worth taking?
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 15:27

Fauxmonculus wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

As a follow-up question, do you find the grav-talon or cluster caltrops worth taking?

I prefer Grav Talons, as you have control over the effect....Caltrops aren't bad, but are reliant on your opponent Falling Back.

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Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 17:12

I like the Grav Talon more than the caltrops. Magnitize everything, you will probably want to swap things around as the META changes over the months/years.
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Drek
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 21:22

I’m taking six, two with Heat Lances. I’m also taking 10 Hellions.
I give the Reaverrs Splinter Mind for BS2 and they zip around the board shooting bad things. Then mid or late game they can zip in and take an objective. I really don’t need more than six for that, and it’s a point total that works well for my list.

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Cerve
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 22:31

If you play 20 Hellions, go 12 Reavers.
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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 22:53

Has anyone actually used the Reaver vs Hellion rivalry Stratagem?
Is it worth planning around, or not worth handcuffing two good units together?

I took 6 Reavers and 7 Hellions today against an all-infantry Marine list, and both units were big enough to do the job. Hellions hiding and deploying scramblers turn one didn't feel like a wasted turn, and removed the temptation to expose them too early!
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 09 2021, 09:23

I use 2 units of 9

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 09 2021, 09:28

dumpeal wrote:
I use 2 units of 9

Ouch! That's a lot of points. How are they working out for you?

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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 09 2021, 16:37

Ive been running 9 Reavers and 10 Hellions. Going to drop the Hellions this weekend for more Wracks (I own 12 Reavers and 0 Hellions).

Not sure which is better, but Reavers work better in my Necron META.

I would recomend rolling for your Reaver drugs. They are the only unit that will benefit from ANY of the options. Thats my $0.02 anyway.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 12 2021, 10:05

Count Adhemar wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I use 2 units of 9

Ouch! That's a lot of points. How are they working out for you?

I don't know, we can't play for the moment. Will tell you in a month.

But I use the 10pts/reavers, since it's the most recent point update.
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 12 2021, 20:41

dumpeal wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I use 2 units of 9

Ouch! That's a lot of points. How are they working out for you?

I don't know, we can't play for the moment. Will tell you in a month.

But I use the 10pts/reavers, since it's the most recent point update.

My understanding is that the 'most recent' is the Spanish language edition of the codex (printed after the English one), in which Reavers are 20pts.....I'd be more than happy to be wrong though Twisted Evil

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 12 2021, 20:50

Played with just the 9 Reavers this weekend, and they did fine.

When it came time to actually do stuff, they whiffed pretty hard. Might be better to go up to 12 so that you have that 4th heat lance and grav talon. Too easy for 3 shots to do nothing. More playtesting required Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 12 2021, 21:16

3x3 or 9/12 is my pick.

3 if you want MSU objectives and harassment, but don't expect them to turn fights.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 13 2021, 00:29

harlokin wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I use 2 units of 9

Ouch! That's a lot of points. How are they working out for you?

I don't know, we can't play for the moment. Will tell you in a month.

But I use the 10pts/reavers, since it's the most recent point update.

My understanding is that the 'most recent' is the Spanish language edition of the codex (printed after the English one), in which Reavers are 20pts.....I'd be more than happy to be wrong though Twisted Evil

I'm always wary of translated codex. That's why even though I'm speaking french, I bought the english version.

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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 13 2021, 09:01

I have played 2x units of 5 successfully so far (against BA, Necrons, SM and IK), with good success.
Their shooting output of course is not incredible, but:
- I don’t feel guilty if I decide to advance
- I can use them as wings of my army, one on each side
- It is a decent number for EF strat, without triggering the additional CP cost and the blast rule
- Still good to harass poorly protected objs in the enemy deployment

I play them as Red Grief with S5, T5 and one Lance and talon

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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 13 2021, 09:09

Gherma wrote:
I have played 2x units of 5 successfully so far (against BA, Necrons, SM and IK), with good success.
Their shooting output of course is not incredible, but:
- I don’t feel guilty if I decide to advance
- I can use them as wings of my army, one on each side
- It is a decent number for EF strat, without triggering the additional CP cost and the blast rule
- Still good to harass poorly protected objs in the enemy deployment

I play them as Red Grief with S5, T5 and one Lance and talon

That's interesting.

If I were already running a unit of five, I'd be soooo tempted to try and find the points for one more to get the second Heat Lance.

As it is, I can only accomodate six into my 1300 point list, and I'm unsure whether to go for one unit or two small ones.

_________________
"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed, and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection."

Kabal of the Mon-Keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues
Cult of Veiled Malice
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 13:57

fisheyes wrote:
Honestly, it depends on your Fast Attack slots. You only get 2 in a Wych Cult Patrol (AKA Raiding Force), and there are a lot of good stuff fighting for those 2 spots (Reavers, Hellions, Beast Packs, Scourges, etc).

I personally think the sweet spot is 9, but I am not the most competent Archon Razz

Beast Packs and Scourges should be operating in Kabal or Coven Detachments. The Beastmaster doesn't have much to gain from Obsessions, anyway. I'd even venture that Reavers could, in a pinch, be placed outside Cult Detachments as long as you pick your Combat Drugs.



commandersasha wrote:
Has anyone actually used the Reaver vs Hellion rivalry Stratagem?
Is it worth planning around, or not worth handcuffing two good units together?

I took 6 Reavers and 7 Hellions today against an all-infantry Marine list, and both units were big enough to do the job.  Hellions hiding and deploying scramblers turn one didn't feel like a wasted turn, and removed the temptation to expose them too early!

Yes. It is good if you get 2nd turn. My limited experience has Reavers and Hellions moving around too much past turn 1. Animus Vitae makes it possible to get +1 to-hit on turn 2, so even if your Hellions and Reavers found themselves close to each other on turn 2, the value of rerolls is diminished. The other value of Deadly Rivals is that it is a different stratagem from Prey on the Weak, meaning you can use both in the same phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 16:15

False Son wrote:

Beast Packs and Scourges should be operating in Kabal or Coven Detachments.  

You sure that works? Last codex you lost your Kabal/Coven chapter tactic if you included non-Kabal/Coven units in the detatchment.

Maybe something got updated in 9th, but I am 98% sure it still works this way.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 16:26

fisheyes wrote:
False Son wrote:

Beast Packs and Scourges should be operating in Kabal or Coven Detachments.  

You sure that works? Last codex you lost your Kabal/Coven chapter tactic if you included non-Kabal/Coven units in the detatchment.

Maybe something got updated in 9th, but I am 98% sure it still works this way.

It's changed from 8e. If you look at pg119 of the codex, Detachment Types, I think it makes it pretty clear.

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 14 2021, 17:13

fisheyes wrote:
False Son wrote:

Beast Packs and Scourges should be operating in Kabal or Coven Detachments.  

You sure that works? Last codex you lost your Kabal/Coven chapter tactic if you included non-Kabal/Coven units in the detatchment.

Maybe something got updated in 9th, but I am 98% sure it still works this way.

The Beastmaster would not get an Obsession. Kabal units in the Detachment would get one.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 16:41

My mistake, guess I still need to get my head wrapped around 9th edition Razz

Makes things easier at low point games, thats for sure!
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Reaver squad size?   Reaver squad size? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 17:15

I don't blame you. I think there's even room in the rules to argue that you can have multiple Kabals, Cults and Covens within the same Detachment able to take different Obsessions. For example, Black Heart and Poison Tongue both getting Obsessions, so long as they are both within a Kabal Detachment. The rules don't specify that the Detachment has to have a <Kabal> designation, only that it has to be Kabal, and that all <Kabal> units get a detachment.

If this is true it really opens up possibilities, as long as you are comfortable not being able to benefit from the Detachment leader's aura.
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