Subject: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 15:32
What do you guys think of these 2 secondaries? They are competing for the same slot and i know before our codex release, engage was an autotake.
Herd the pray is more offensive and cannot be scored on the first battleround but now that we are generally much more aggresive and want to charge the enemy its not that hard to get 4 points out of it each round with 6 points not being out of the question especially in later turns...
On the other hand Engage on all fronts requires more effort to pull of 3 points and usualy means that you might need to sacrifice something to do it, but the 2 points are not that hard with our speed. Also it does not help when the fight is in the middle of the battlefield which alot of times is the case... But can be more consistant perhaps...?
I played my first game against Custodes the other day and i took herd the prey and did not regret it at all it gave me some good points and actually helped me focus on getting my cc units into battle where they are needed instead of spreading out my army on the whole battlefield but against a more numerous army im not sure what is better...
What do you guys think..?
Posts : 97 Join date : 2017-07-01
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 15:56
I think its situational but if you ever in doubt...use Engage on all fronts. Small model count armies which are slow are a good way to score herd but a lot of lists now outflank some crap squad for scramblers.
Posts : 1854 Join date : 2011-11-16 Location : Russia
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 16:25
Engage most of the time. Maybe in this specific case with Custodes it played, but what other army will you be able to pull it off? Knights?
Thing is, you score on Engage without your opponent saying anything about it and only deal with consequences, but opponent can and will affect if you score on Herd the Prey.
I would not take it, if im not certain it will play off.
Its super easy to score 3 points on engage even from turn one. Reavers, Flyers, Advancing Raiders etc. This is basically what this army is doing. Engaging.
Something like Ravagers and Mandrakes holding back at home objectives.
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SCP Yeeman Sybarite
Posts : 348 Join date : 2013-04-17
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 16:54
I'll piggyback off of Azdrubael. Engage to me is much better because I dictate the me and my army getting points. Herd the Prey is dictated by my opponent and them moving in. If HtP could be used T1, I would like it, but it is very situational in my mind.
Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 17:08
Engage is less conditional and scores more consistently.
Posts : 2032 Join date : 2016-02-18
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Wed Mar 31 2021, 17:18
I do like having the option when you go against those super-tough but slow armies.
90% go for All Fronts, 10% you Herd.
Dont think I will ever go with Herd in my Meta. Necrons/Marines/Tyranids/Sisters all too fast and probably taking All Fronts themselves
Engage is less conditional and scores more consistently.
I was thinking the same. But...with the new Codex I'm not sure anymore. Engage gives to you 2 points pretty easy, as Herd do. We're super fast and aggressive, but spread themselves everywhere just because we need that third point is something that bugged me too much. Expecially in mid/late game, heard can be 15 free points. We're way too killy for not scoring them.
I must say I wanna give Herd more chances, I think it is more solid than engage after all. Expecially if you play a lot with the no-flank strategy, which I do a lot of times. I hate Engange for that.
Posts : 609 Join date : 2014-02-09
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 04:57
I’m not a fan Herd because it means a savvy opponent can dictate your target priority by throwing things forward that haven you to kill or risk losing points. Plus it makes you have to play more defensively in the table quarters on your side of the board for the entire game. I just think it’s well suited to how our army wants to play unless maybe you’re running a full Covens list, in which case it could be useful depending on the matchup.
Posts : 676 Join date : 2017-06-03
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 05:51
I think the only thing that holds Herd the Prey back is being unable to score it on the first battle round. It makes sense, but in timed games, you might not get to the point where it adds up enough to be worth taking over Engage.
Realistically, you're not scoring more than 4 points per turn on HtP unless you're already well on your way to dominating the game. So by turn 3 you've probably scored 8 points. Conversely, Engage on All Fronts can put you at 9 in 3 turns.
So turn 4 is where you might crossover IF your opponent hasn't managed to slow it down. And even then it's only by 1 point. Turn 5 is where it only has a chance to really break away. But even then, it maxes at 15 points, just like Engage on All Fronts.
If it takes 5 turns to max out points on either one, go with the option that you can dictate more easily.
Posts : 523 Join date : 2013-08-16
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 14:22
ok i think herd is actually better, i have played some games now and always taken herd (i was always taking engage before the codex) 4 points per round is ridiculously easy to score which means without too much effort you can max it out (4x4=16) by the end of the game. On the other hand engage requires you to put alot of effort every round to get the 3 points which means that if you cant score the 3 points in even one round you wont max it (3x5=15)... There is absolutely no room for a single mistake to get those 15 points. Just my 2 cents and my experience so far
Edit: Of course it depends on the matchup but i wouldnt say that its 9 out of 10 times engage, more like fifty fifty... Think about it how many factions are so much all over the place that you cannot be sure to at least contain them COMPLETELY within two tablequarters each round?
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 15:05
No one against us will deny Herd easely. No one wants to divide himself against US. This army is crazy good on hitting fast lone units.
And why people still thing that Herd must have been done on our 2 quarters. I will never play safely just for it, I will simply wipe out one enemy quarter and that's it. Another one of my choice will be easy. Expecially on T3-5 Herd grants you a lot of points considering how much we are killy now.
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Koldan Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 179 Join date : 2017-10-26
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 16:03
Interesting suggestions here. But against what armies are you playing? I have played maybe once or twice against an opponent who didn't take engage on all fronts themselves and Herd feels for me like a secondary that will not help you win the game, it will just make you win bigger. If you can easily take your opponent from the objectives you can spend more offensive power to clear whole table quarters.If it is closer with primary points it may be wiser to concentrate on objectives instead of clearing table quarters,.A unit scoring Engage on all fronts still can do other things, for example shooting your opponent off an objective or deploying scramblers, while a unit that hunts an opponent unit far away from the objectives is usefull for herd, but does not bring much else. And I know how much Necrons with the same secondary hated hunting the lone court of the archon model hiding behind some obscuring terrain, so I am not interested in letting my local Necron players return the favour with something similar.
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 19:34
The thing is, we are completely differents from Necrons. We're way more faster and hit way more heavier. The thing is, you get 2 points with Quarters, with a unit in 3 different quarters. You get 2 points if you clean a single quarter. And enemy units must be wolly within a quarter for deny you.
I can argue that is not something to pick always, but I definitely agree that it is WAY MORE easy to score points in this way for us than Necrons in the same way.
Oaka Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 149 Join date : 2020-08-02
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Sun Apr 04 2021, 20:12
I'm liking Herd more than Engage because my transports were usually moving into the different table quarters to score after dropping their cargo off. Now with grisly trophies and chain snares you want them assaulting the same enemy unit as their passengers.
It will probably be a 'win more' secondary a lot of the time, but at some point you will have a game that is a bloodbath with few units remaining after three turns and you will be scoring easy points turn 4 and 5.
Posts : 259 Join date : 2013-02-12
Subject: Re: Engage on all fronts VS herd the prey Mon Apr 05 2021, 11:28
I played coven heavy list with 60 PoF wracks and AoF Taloi vs. Grey Knights. I usually take Engage on all fronts and scramblers, but here I took Banners and Herd the prey and maxed out both these missions at the end of the game. We played hammer and anvil deployment with 3 objectives on each table halves. The enemy could not deep strike to me as I spammed everything with my units. And all the troops who came close, were wiped out easily. So I think Herd the prey is a solid choice for specific play style.