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 9th ed Mathammer Thread

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AlCorps
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PostSubject: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 16:57

Greetings, puny mortals.

This thread is to show the value of different weapon/drug/relic/warlord options on various units.
The aim is to get an "in a vacuum" idea of the best unit for a task, compared unit to unit and per points cost.

I've started with scourges, as they have had a lot of weapon changes, and contain most of the special/heavy weapons also available to other units.

Each table contains a target, the weapons are ranked by points efficiency.
The shots, hits, wounds, and unsaved columns from the spreadsheet are left out to save space, only the final damage and damage-per-point are posted.

A note on damage calculations: I've capped the damage of a weapon by the number of wounds it can do to a model in that unit. This has the effect of lowering the points efficiency of some weapons, but gives a closer idea of how many models could be killed in practice.
EG a blaster can do a max of 2 damage to a primaris marine, so it's damage is averaged at 2 rather than 3.5.

Light and normal infantry.
TargetWeaponDamageDamage per point
10 Guardsman (t3, 1w, 5+)4 Shredders (6+ blast)7.4074074070.09259259259
4 Splinter Cannon2.50.025
4 Blasters2.2222222220.02222222222
4 Haywire Blasters1.6666666670.01666666667
4 HeatLance1.6666666670.01666666667
4 Dark Lance1.6666666670.01388888889
Primaris (t4, 2w, 3+)4 Blasters4.0740740740.04074074074
4 Shredders3.1111111110.03888888889
4 HeatLance3.3333333330.03333333333
4 Splinter Cannon30.03
4 Dark Lance3.3333333330.02777777778
4 Haywire Blasters1.8518518520.01851851852

Unsurprisingly, shredders are good against guardsmen.
The big takeaway here is that Blasters tend to be the best option, as they don't suffer the heavy penalty all the other weapons do.
The -1 to hit for heavy weapons (assuming you are moving you scourge...) is a big reduction in reliable damage.

Heavy infantry
TargetWeaponDamageDamage per point
Gravis (t5, 3w, 3+)4 Blasters4.4444444440.04444444444
4 HeatLance40.04
4 Shredders3.1111111110.03888888889
4 Dark Lance40.03333333333
4 Splinter Cannon30.03
4 Haywire Blasters2.2222222220.02222222222
Bladeguard4 Blasters2.7777777780.02777777778
4 Shredders2.0740740740.02592592593
4 HeatLance2.50.025
4 Dark Lance2.50.02083333333
4 Splinter Cannon20.02
4 Haywire Blasters1.3333333330.01333333333
Terminator (t4, 3w, 2+, 5++)4 Blasters3.7037037040.03703703704
4 HeatLance3.3333333330.03333333333
4 Dark Lance3.3333333330.02777777778
4 Shredders2.0740740740.02592592593
4 Splinter Cannon20.02
4 Haywire Blasters1.7777777780.01777777778

Again, Blasters are the best, but Heat Lances are making a good showing due to their high damage. If they can hit, they do a lot of damage.

Super-heavy infantry
TargetWeaponDamageDamage per point
Terminator SS (t4, 1+, 4++)4 Blasters2.7777777780.02777777778
4 HeatLance2.50.025
4 Dark Lance2.50.02083333333
4 Haywire Blasters1.3333333330.01333333333
4 Shredders1.0370370370.01296296296
4 Splinter Cannon10.01
Transhuman Gravis4 Blasters3.3333333330.03333333333
4 Splinter Cannon30.03
4 HeatLance30.03
4 Shredders2.3333333330.02916666667
4 Dark Lance30.025
4 Haywire Blasters2.2222222220.02222222222
Super Tough Nurgle Terminator (t5, 3w, 2+. 5++, -1d)4 Shredders2.0740740740.02592592593
4 Blasters2.5679012350.02567901235
4 HeatLance2.5185185190.02518518519
4 Dark Lance2.6666666670.02222222222
4 Haywire Blasters1.1851555560.01185155556
4 Splinter Cannon10.01

Blasters are still the best, Heat Lances are close behind.
Any sort of invulnerable save, transhuman, or -1 damage, and the efficiency of these weapons plummets.

Big targets
TargetWeaponDamageDamage per point
Outrider/Attackbike (t5, 4w,3+)4 Blasters5.3333333330.05333333333
4 HeatLance5.1111111110.05111111111
4 Dark Lance5.3333333330.04444444444
4 Shredders3.1111111110.03888888889
4 Splinter Cannon30.03
4 Haywire Blasters2.2222222220.02222222222
Rhino4 HeatLance7.3333333330.07333333333
4 Blasters6.2222222220.06222222222
4 Dark Lance6.6666666670.05555555556
4 Haywire Blasters4.6666666670.04666666667
4 Shredders1.5555555560.01944444444
4 Splinter Cannon10.01
Knight (t8, w24, 3+, 5++)4 Haywire Blasters40.04
4 HeatLance3.6666666670.03666666667
4 Blasters3.1111111110.03111111111
4 Dark Lance3.3333333330.02777777778
4 Shredders1.5555555560.01944444444
4 Splinter Cannon10.01

Some things change here.
Blasters are still good, but once the target gets above the 4 wound mark, the Heat Lance really starts to punch. The much higher average damage kicks in, if you roll hot then a rhino could be killed in 1 volley, even with the heavy penalty.
The haywire blaster finally sees some use against knight targets, but it's only just ahead of the Heat Lance.

Remaining Stationary
For funzies, I did two targets with the scourge Remaining Stationary, to show the effect of the heavy penalty.
TargetWeaponDamageDamage per point
Gravis (t5, 3w, 3+)4 HeatLance (stationary)5.3333333330.05333333333
4 Blasters4.4444444440.04444444444
4 Dark Lance (stationary)5.3333333330.04444444444
4 Splinter Cannon (stationary)40.04
4 HeatLance40.04
4 Shredders3.1111111110.03888888889
4 Dark Lance40.03333333333
4 Splinter Cannon30.03
4 Haywire Blasters (stationary)2.9629629630.02962962963
4 Haywire Blasters2.2222222220.02222222222
Knight (t8, w24, 3+, 5++)4 Haywire Blasters (stationary)5.3333333330.05333333333
4 HeatLance (stationary)4.8888888890.04888888889
4 Haywire Blasters40.04
4 Dark Lance (stationary)4.4444444440.03703703704
4 HeatLance3.6666666670.03666666667
4 Blasters3.1111111110.03111111111
4 Dark Lance3.3333333330.02777777778
4 Shredders1.5555555560.01944444444
4 Splinter Cannon (stationary)1.3333333330.01333333333
4 Splinter Cannon10.01


Next up, I'll post a list of the popular anti-tank options against standard tank targets.


Last edited by AlCorps on Mon Mar 29 2021, 17:31; edited 1 time in total
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 17:12

It's a nice idea but I fear your math might be off in places.

At a glance, on the top table you've got Dark Lances and Heat Lances both doing less damage then Blasters - which is impossible as they have the exact same statlines, only with better damage characteristics.

I've got Heat Lances doing 4.44r wounds to a Primaris Marine, not 3.33r.

Against GEQ, they should all be doing the same damage (as the only difference between them for the purposes of this table is the damage characteristic).

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AlCorps
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 17:28

I should probably explain the tables a bit better. Shots,Hits,Wounds,Unsaved columns are left out. Just the final damage step, and damage-per-point are posted.
So a blaster does more damage to guardsmen than a dark lance, as it will have hit more times.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 17:41

@AlCorps wrote:
I should probably explain the tables a bit better. Shots,Hits,Wounds,Unsaved columns are left out. Just the final damage step, and damage-per-point are posted.
So a blaster does more damage to guardsmen than a dark lance, as it will have hit more times.

Oh so you're assuming that Heavy weapons have always moved before firing then?

Okay, I think I get you now.

My mistake then. Apologies.

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 22:48

think the Haywire Blaster is off. it is a d3 Blast weapon, so if it target the Guardsmen for instance it is 12 shots, 6 hit, 3 wound, 3 damage if we keep the damage cap at 1, while moving. 4 damage if stationary. have to remember those blast rules.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Mathammer Thread   9th ed Mathammer Thread I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 00:32

This is cool. Would have rather seen the results without the -1 for moving penalty as most Dark Lances will be on Raiders/Ravagers. Also Heat Lances will most likely be seen on Reavers so again no penalty.
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