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 2000 Competitive List for a League

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Gelmir
Drek
Vailex
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

Posts : 98
Join date : 2011-12-05
Location : UK

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PostSubject: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 15:21

Hey all, this is my first idea for a list with the new Codex. Going to play a league for the next couple months. Pretty Competitive. Meta has a lot of Marines, Death Guard, Imperial Guard, a few Custodes, and assorted Xenos.

The list checks all the boxes of what I want to try, but gives up a couple CP to do it. Archon and Drazhar make the Incubi monsters. Wyches are great horde and decent marine killers. Triple Dark Lance, Heat Lances, and Incubi can all Kill Mech lists. Draz, Show Stealer Succubus and Reavers are all Character killers. Haemonculus and Wracks as tough objective holders.

Cult of Strife Patrol for Drazhar and Cult Stratagems.

The worrying pieces for me are low starting CP and lack of anti infantry shooting. But with Cult of Strife Obsessions and Strats and new PFP I think getting Wyches in combat is a lot easier.

Going to play a game Friday and hopefully Saturday to get an idea of the list before I submit it Sunday.

Real Space Raid 12 CP (7CP)
-2 CP Patrol
-1 Alliance of Agony Stratagem
-2 Prizes of the Dark City Stratagem


Realspace Raiders Kabal of the Black Heart | Prophets of Flesh | Cult of Strife


Archon w/Agonizer and Splinter Pistol (Warlord, Labyrinth Cunning)(Writ of the Living Muse) - 65 Kabal of the Black Heart

Master Succubus w/ (AoA Precision Blows, Prizes Triptych Whip) - 75 +1 Attack Combat Drug Cult of Strife

Master Haemonculus-100 ( AoA Twisted Animator, Prizes Vexator Mask) Prophets Of Flesh

10x Bloodbrides W/Razor Flails, Shardnet & Impaler | Hekatrix w/Power Sword - 135 +1 Strength Combat Drug - Cult of Strife

5x Warriors - 40 Black Heart
8x Haemoxytes w/Electro-Corrosive Whip-85 Prophets Of Flesh
Incubi w/Klaivex x5 -80
Incubi w/Klaivex x5 -80
5x Mandrakes-75
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140 Kabal of the Black Heart
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140 Kabal of the Black Heart
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140 Kabal of the Black Heart
9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3, 3 Grav Talons, 2x Roll Dice Combat Drugs - 225 Cult of Strife
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70 Kabal of the Black Heart
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70 Kabal of the Black Heart
Raider w/Dark Lance -85 Kabal of the Black Heart
Raider w/Dark Lance -85 Kabal of the Black Heart

Cult of Strife Patrol -2 CP

- Drazhar-135
- Succubus w/Agonizer and Archite Glaive - 60 +1 Strength Combat Drug Cult of Strife
-10x Wyches W/Razorflails, Shardnet and Impaler | Hekatrix w/Power Sword -115 +1 Strength Combat Drug Cult of Strife
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Vailex
Hellion
Vailex

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 15:38

I like the list. Id always pick +1 BS on reavers. You are going to have to be really picky about your strat usage at 7cp. Let us know how it goes.
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 16:18

@Vailex wrote:
I like the list.  Id always pick +1 BS on reavers.  You are going to have to be really picky about your strat usage at 7cp.  Let us know how it goes.

I'm really thinking the same thing about Reavers, glad to know I'm not the only one. Heat Lances on 2+ turn 1 is so good. And if it makes them a threat, then they aren't shooting at Ravagers and Raiders.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 16:30

I like it, looks like fun. Very balanced Smile

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Drek
Slave
Drek

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 20:05

I like it. Heavier on Ravagers than I’m going, but the meta matters.

I ran the numbers this morning and against Primaris equivalents I discovered that on Bloodbrides with upgraded weapons, the extra attack combat drug results in more overall damage than +1 strength. This surprised me, maybe I did bad maths, but that’s what my math tells me.
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 20:19

@Drek wrote:
I like it. Heavier on Ravagers than I’m going, but the meta matters.

I ran the numbers this morning and against Primaris equivalents I discovered that on Bloodbrides with upgraded weapons, the extra attack combat drug results in more overall damage than +1 strength. This surprised me, maybe I did bad maths, but that’s what my math tells me.

Yea, my meta is very mech/knight/marine heavy for the most part, I think at 140 with BH I'll get my points worth. Also, if i lose 1 a turn it won't hurt as bad.

Making me rethink my life over here with the drugs, kinda makes sense though, more attacks means more chance for AP4 Blade Artist procs. Have you ran the math for regular Wyches with the normal Proc?
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Gelmir
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Gelmir

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 29 2021, 22:37

Why Prophets though? That coven is best for Grotesques and Talos, but you're running only Wracks.

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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 01:09

@Gelmir wrote:
Why Prophets though? That coven is best for Grotesques and Talos, but you're running only Wracks.

I think they work best for what I'm using them for, an objective holder with utility that you don't want to charge with basic units. They have the best damage mitigation of the Covens. A great utility relic I can use elsewhere. And a cheap stratagem to toss on the wracks. The second part of the obsession helps wracks more than talos or grots imo.

If they get charged, use Vexator for fight last, reroll hits for a CP and win against most basic units.

Dark Creed could help Incubi if they're fighting together, Coven of Twelve is tempting if I had some shooting in the unit.

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Vailex
Hellion
Vailex

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 13:52

Prophet is best for wracks and maybe grots. Artists of Flesh is best for grots and talos
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Drek
Slave
Drek

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 15:47

@KabaliteSon wrote:
@Drek wrote:

I ran the numbers this morning and against Primaris equivalents I discovered that on Bloodbrides with upgraded weapons, the extra attack combat drug results in more overall damage than +1 strength. This surprised me, maybe I did bad maths, but that’s what my math tells me.

Making me rethink my life over here with the drugs, kinda makes sense though, more attacks means more chance for AP4 Blade Artist procs. Have you ran the math for regular Wyches with the normal Proc?

Just ran them, the maths are the same for regular Wyches. But again: this is against Primaris equivalent, and with fully upgraded combat weapons: power sword/agoniser for the Hekatrix, Shardnet/Impaler, Razorflails, Hydra Gauntlets. Take those away, and the naked unit does better with +1S than +1A. And Adrenalight is only if you charge.

Lots to ponder!
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 17:18

@Drek wrote:
@KabaliteSon wrote:
@Drek wrote:

I ran the numbers this morning and against Primaris equivalents I discovered that on Bloodbrides with upgraded weapons, the extra attack combat drug results in more overall damage than +1 strength. This surprised me, maybe I did bad maths, but that’s what my math tells me.

Making me rethink my life over here with the drugs, kinda makes sense though, more attacks means more chance for AP4 Blade Artist procs. Have you ran the math for regular Wyches with the normal Proc?

Just ran them, the maths are the same for regular Wyches. But again: this is against Primaris equivalent, and with fully upgraded combat weapons: power sword/agoniser for the Hekatrix, Shardnet/Impaler, Razorflails, Hydra Gauntlets. Take those away, and the naked unit does better with +1S than +1A. And Adrenalight is only if you charge.

Lots to ponder!

I guess the next question is, is it worth the 25 points for all the weapons? Can a base squad kill 5 Primaris with +1 Strength, since that is the average squad size. I think I'll probably run the Bloodbrides with the full kit and +1A and a standard Wych squad with the strength.
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Drek
Slave
Drek

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 21:27

@KabaliteSon wrote:
@Drek wrote:
@KabaliteSon wrote:
@Drek wrote:

I ran the numbers this morning and against Primaris equivalents I discovered that on Bloodbrides with upgraded weapons, the extra attack combat drug results in more overall damage than +1 strength. This surprised me, maybe I did bad maths, but that’s what my math tells me.

Making me rethink my life over here with the drugs, kinda makes sense though, more attacks means more chance for AP4 Blade Artist procs. Have you ran the math for regular Wyches with the normal Proc?

Just ran them, the maths are the same for regular Wyches. But again: this is against Primaris equivalent, and with fully upgraded combat weapons: power sword/agoniser for the Hekatrix, Shardnet/Impaler, Razorflails, Hydra Gauntlets. Take those away, and the naked unit does better with +1S than +1A. And Adrenalight is only if you charge.

Lots to ponder!

I guess the next question is, is it worth the 25 points for all the weapons? Can a base squad kill 5 Primaris with +1 Strength, since that is the average squad size. I think I'll probably run the Bloodbrides with the full kit and +1A and a standard Wych squad with the strength.

That’s a lot of math lol. I will tell you that a basic squad of 10 with +1S will do 7 wounds to a unit if Primaris, while a basic squad with Adrenalight will do 6. Given that I want to wipe them, I’m buying the upgrades.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 21:37

IMO, keep it cheap, I would even go as far as to say that Wyches are better in 5-man units.

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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 22:28

So I switched it up a little bit. After checking out Hero's WIP list and Drek's math I'm going to give this a shot Friday. A lot of this is theorycrafting until it gets on the table and the league will show a lot of what works and doesn't. I like the larger squads of Wyches partially for stratagems affecting more models and being a little more killy. I think Hero's 4 HQ setup is strong as hell, having 4 blenders on the board. And Trueborn are back.

I feel like its a more efficient version of the first list without having to dip into Coven.

Real Space Raid 14 CP (10CP)
-2 CP Relics
-2 CP Warlord Traits


Black Heart Patrol
Master Archon w/Huskblade and Blast Pistol (Warlord, Hatred Eternal, Djinn Blade) - 90
10x Trueborn with 2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 135
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks -95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies -90

Black Heart Patrol
Drazhar-135
Raider w/Dark Lance, GTs -90
5x Warriors-40
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140

Cult of Strife Patrol
- Master Succubus w/(Competitive Edge, Triptych Whip) - 75 Adrenalite
- Succubus w/Razorflails (Precision Blows, Dark Lotus Toxin) - 60 Adrenalite
- 10x Bloodbrides W/Razorflails, Hydragauntlets, Shardnet, Power Sword - 145 Adrenalite
- 10x Wyches -100 Grave Lotus
- 9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3, 3 Grav Talons - 225 Splintermind
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Dalamar
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 291
Join date : 2012-02-28
Location : Chicago

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 30 2021, 22:55

@KabaliteSon wrote:


Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 70

you have to pay for the splinter cannon those 80 pts each
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 31 2021, 17:20

I would recomend taking Chain Snares for a spin in one of your test games. They do a surprising amount of damage, if you can fit them in.
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 01 2021, 14:29

@fisheyes wrote:
I would recomend taking Chain Snares for a spin in one of your test games. They do a surprising amount of damage, if you can fit them in.

Yea, they can definitely be solid if you have the spare points. Might be better than shock prow in some aspects. Plus ramming a Shock Prow into Guard or Sisters then having 6 S7 attacks from a transport sounds fun.

This is where I'm at now with the Venom points fix, hopefully they FAQ it at some point. A Venom being the same price as a Raider is rough.

Real Space Raid 14 CP (10CP)
-2 CP Relics
-2 CP Warlord Traits


Black Heart Patrol
Master Archon w/Huskblade and Blast Pistol (Warlord, Hatred Eternal, Djinn Blade) - 90
10x Trueborn with 2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 135
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 80
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 80
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Shock Prow - 90

Black Heart Patrol
Drazhar-135
Raider w/Dark Lance - 85
5x Warriors- 40
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances - 140

Cult of Strife Patrol
Master Succubus w/(Competitive Edge, Triptych Whip) - 75 Adrenalite
Succubus w/Razorflails (Precision Blows, Dark Lotus Toxin) - 60 Adrenalite
10x Bloodbrides, Shardnet, Razorflails, Hydragauntlets, Power Sword - 145 Adrenalite
10x Wyches -100 Grave Lotus
9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3 - 210 Splintermind
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 01 2021, 19:36

I like it, you went quite the opposite of what I went, as I took on more Warriors in my latest iteration.

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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 03 2021, 04:03

Played it today against Knights. I like it a lot. Incubi were the MVPs by far. Cult of Strife strats we great as well. Haven't played against infantry yet so they Wyches didn't see much action. It was nice using Swift Outflanking and Murderous Descent to keep them safe then in the fight.

I picked Deploy Scramblers and don't really have the units for it. Everything in my army feels needed. Which is good I think. I should have taken Herd They Prey from the Codex. Basically would have got 6 points a round from turn 2 on by keeping him pinned in his deployment zone (I can see this happening a lot).

Not really anything I'd change in the list right now. May put trophies onto the raiders. Fight last is so strong. Reavers were great. Master Archon with the Djinn Blade is like a second Draz.

Venoms did no shooting, but one hid on an objective all game because of its size and the other delivered the Incubi. The ability to hide them easily shouldn't be overlooked IMO. And if I had 2 Cannons on one I could see myself using Potent Metalloxins to finish off a T8 vehicle.
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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 20:47

Tweaked my list a little from my last games and brainstorming. Dropped my BH Patrol with the 3rd Ravager and added DT Wracks, Mandrakes and a Raider (Meh). I found myself lacking passive objective holders like Wracks and something to easily get Scramblers. I think this list losing the Ravager hurts, but having 2 more Obsec units that are actually useful and Mandrakes to help lockdown 10 easy points is great. I'm also debating swapping in hellions vs the second Wych squad, they can be a great tarpit unit that hits hard as well with a little more flexibility. But obsec is great on the Wyches.

Real Space Raid 14 CP (10CP)
-2 CP Relics
-2 CP Warlord Traits


Black Heart Patrol
Master Archon w/Huskblade and Blast Pistol (Warlord, Hatred Eternal, Djinn Blade) - 90
10x Trueborn with 2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 135
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Ravager w/3 Dark Lances-140
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 80
Venom w/Splinter Cannon,TLSplinter Rifle and Grisly Trophies - 80
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance - 85

Dark Technomancers Patrol
Drazhar-135
5 Mandrakes - 75
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60
Raider w/Dark Lance - 85

Cult of Strife Patrol
Master Succubus w/(Competitive Edge, Triptych Whip) - 75 Adrenalite
Succubus w/Razorflails (Precision Blows, Dark Lotus Toxin) - 60 Adrenalite
10x Bloodbrides - Razorflails, Hydragauntlets, Power Sword - 135 Adrenalite
10x Wyches -100 Grave Lotus
9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3 - 210 Splintermind
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 21:09

I like the new changes. I've found the 10-man units (that's not Wyhces) to be a bit unwieldy and the MSU have been pivotal for playing objectives.

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KabaliteSon
Hellion
KabaliteSon

Posts : 98
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 21:53

@HERO wrote:
I like the new changes. I've found the 10-man units (that's not Wyhces) to be a bit unwieldy and the MSU have been pivotal for playing objectives.

Thanks, I think this list is much more suited for 9th.

What do you find unwieldy about 10 mans? I'm tempted to replace my ravagers with Raiders/Warriors. Different mix of Darklight weapons, shorter range of course, same toughness minus a wound, except when the Raider inevitably dies. Warriors fall out.

EDIT: Other idea

Real Space Raid 14 CP (10CP)
-2 CP Relics
-2 CP Warlord Traits


Black Heart Patrol
Master Archon w/Huskblade and Blast Pistol (Warlord, Hatred Eternal, Djinn Blade) - 90
10x Trueborn with 2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 135
10x Warriors w/2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 115
10x Warriors w/2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 115
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, GT - 90
Raider w/Dark Lance, GT - 90
Raider w/Dark Lance - 85

Dark Technomancers Patrol
Drazhar-135
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60

Cult of Strife Patrol
Master Succubus w/(Competitive Edge, Triptych Whip) - 75 Adrenalite
Succubus w/Razorflails (Precision Blows, Dark Lotus Toxin) - 60 Adrenalite
10x Bloodbrides - Razorflails, Hydragauntlets, Power Sword - 135 Adrenalite
10x Wyches -100 Grave Lotus
9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3 - 210 Splintermind
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Competitive List for a League   2000 Competitive List for a League I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 15 2021, 22:50

@KabaliteSon wrote:
@HERO wrote:
I like the new changes. I've found the 10-man units (that's not Wyhces) to be a bit unwieldy and the MSU have been pivotal for playing objectives.

Thanks, I think this list is much more suited for 9th.

What do you find unwieldy about 10 mans? I'm tempted to replace my ravagers with Raiders/Warriors. Different mix of Darklight weapons, shorter range of course, same toughness minus a wound, except when the Raider inevitably dies. Warriors fall out.

EDIT: Other idea

Real Space Raid 14 CP (10CP)
-2 CP Relics
-2 CP Warlord Traits


Black Heart Patrol
Master Archon w/Huskblade and Blast Pistol (Warlord, Hatred Eternal, Djinn Blade) - 90
10x Trueborn with 2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 135
10x Warriors w/2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 115
10x Warriors w/2 Blaster, 1 Dark Lance - 115
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
5x Incubi w/Klaivex -80
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, Splinter Racks - 95
Raider w/Dark Lance, GT - 90
Raider w/Dark Lance, GT - 90
Raider w/Dark Lance - 85

Dark Technomancers Patrol
Drazhar-135
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60
4x Wracks w/Liquifier, Acothyst w/Liquifier-60

Cult of Strife Patrol
Master Succubus w/(Competitive Edge, Triptych Whip) - 75 Adrenalite
Succubus w/Razorflails (Precision Blows, Dark Lotus Toxin) - 60 Adrenalite
10x Bloodbrides -  Razorflails, Hydragauntlets, Power Sword  - 135 Adrenalite
10x Wyches -100 Grave Lotus
9x Reavers w/Heat Lances x3 - 210 Splintermind

My thought process is to think of it like a football team. Which of your players are playing objectives, which ones are in the back field, which one is out and attacking your opponents objectives (playing offense). What I've found in my games is that having Warriors in 2x5 vs. 10 allows me to have the flexibility to put them forward or back to play objectives. It's easier to tell a 5-man unit to do an action than a 10-man.

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