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 Archons - what is the best loadout?

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SERAFF
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 09:31

@Cerve wrote:
. Then you will have all your Incubi and Courts with +2 on PfP on T2, which means having 5++ on T2 already.

Animus lasts only till the end of your turn, so if the first turn is yours, you will lose 5++ on the opponents turn. So it will not help the Incubi much, only for those lone survivors who will swing back at them in your fight phase.
But gaining WS2+ for all of your wyches, Taloi and Grots one turn earlier is kinda cool.

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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 09:34

@SERAFF wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
. Then you will have all your Incubi and Courts with +2 on PfP on T2, which means having 5++ on T2 already.

Animus lasts only till the end of your turn, so if the first turn is yours, you will lose 5++ on the opponents turn. So it will not help the Incubi much, only for those lone survivors who will swing back at them in your fight phase.
But gaining WS2+ for all of your wyches, Taloi and Grots one turn earlier is kinda cool.



Oooooooooooooh....damn, I tought it was for ROUND. It breaks my strategy. Still works for +1 to hit tho.
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Oaka
Kabalite Warrior
Oaka

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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 12:11

With the way the battle reports have been going so far, if you get armywide +1 to hit on your turn 2 charge that's the game.

I would like to take the Animus Vitae on a Beastmaster, though, instead of an Archon. It makes him seem like less of a tax unit and will be easier to hide than a Raider, with an 18" threat range on lobbing that horror bomb turn 2. With a BS of 3+, though, I'd like an FAQ to confirm that the effects go off simply by throwing it, and not actually needing to hit.
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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 13:56

@Oaka wrote:
With the way the battle reports have been going so far, if you get armywide +1 to hit on your turn 2 charge that's the game.

I would like to take the Animus Vitae on a Beastmaster, though, instead of an Archon.  It makes him seem like less of a tax unit and will be easier to hide than a Raider, with an 18" threat range on lobbing that horror bomb turn 2.  With a BS of 3+, though, I'd like an FAQ to confirm that the effects go off simply by throwing it, and not actually needing to hit.

Yes it is a good value anyway. But I was thinking about 2-3 big Courts with 5++/5+++ since turn 2 so...yeah, it is good but not SO MUCH good as I tought
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 14:44

@False Son wrote:

Agreed on the Huskblade, though.  Not sure why that, and so many other weapons got nerfed.  I suspect it has to do with this overriding insistence that all wargear is either 0 points, or an increment of 5 points.  A S+1 Huskblade is a little too good for 5 points, but not strong enough for 10 points.  They nerfed instead of buffing for a higher cost.  Just strange that Huskblades have gone from potent fragments of death to unimpressive badges of rank.  The reason Archons don't have something like a Relic Blade or Master Crafted Power Sword, that is good, but not a Relic, i think, goes back to a combination of the 0/5/10 mindset, and wanting to limit the value of multiple Archons.

But the huskblade *is* 10 points. The archon comes with a 5 pt power sword already built in, which you can exchange for an agonizer or venom blade for free, as they are both 5 pt weapons. You have to pay an additional 5 for the huskblade, so it's a 10 pt piece of wargear.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 14:55

@krayd wrote:
@False Son wrote:

Agreed on the Huskblade, though.  Not sure why that, and so many other weapons got nerfed.  I suspect it has to do with this overriding insistence that all wargear is either 0 points, or an increment of 5 points.  A S+1 Huskblade is a little too good for 5 points, but not strong enough for 10 points.  They nerfed instead of buffing for a higher cost.  Just strange that Huskblades have gone from potent fragments of death to unimpressive badges of rank.  The reason Archons don't have something like a Relic Blade or Master Crafted Power Sword, that is good, but not a Relic, i think, goes back to a combination of the 0/5/10 mindset, and wanting to limit the value of multiple Archons.

But the huskblade *is* 10 points. The archon comes with a 5 pt power sword already built in, which you can exchange for an agonizer or venom blade for free, as they are both 5 pt weapons. You have to pay an additional 5 for the huskblade, so it's a 10 pt piece of wargear.

Which somehow makes me even sadder about it. 10 points for that piece of crap?!

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 15:03

@Count Adhemar wrote:


Which somehow makes me even sadder about it. 10 points for that piece of crap?!

I think that they tried to assign point values based on what you *can* do with a piece of wargear in certain combinations, rather than based on the stat of the wargear itself, which is pretty strange.

For example, the scissorhand costs more than the electrocorrosive whip, though in most circumstances, the whip is better. Apparently someone saw that if you take either experimental creations or you use Urien's aura, you can buff that scissorhand to a big S4, letting you wound T3 on 3s... and that warranted a 5 pt bump for some reason.

Similarly, I think whoever was assigning points was just looking at combos with Flayed Skull and Obsidian Rose warlord traits when they were looking at the huskblade.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 15:20

I much preferred the granularity of points cost from 8e. Not everything is worth a multiple of 5 points!

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 15:31

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I much preferred the granularity of points cost from 8e. Not everything is worth a multiple of 5 points!

Yeah, and I still find that I have 2 or 3 points left over. Only this time, there is nothing that I can do with them.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 08 2021, 16:06

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Azdrubael wrote:
Well, still, if you want to discuss how to best use your Archon how GW gave him to us, thread is here.

No, that's fair.


In that case, I don't know if this should be separate discussion from the Archon or not, but what about the Archon's court?

- Sslyth seem pretty good if you want a more protective unit, compared to Incubi. Not as killy but 3 wounds apiece, bodyguard and all wielding Shardcarbines. They also seem like the only Kabal unit that can take advantage of the Archon's ability to buff both melee and ranged attacks.

- Lhamaeans seem like something you might include one of to protect against crashes. Wink  Kind of a shame they have so much anti-synergy with Poison Tongue.

- Ur-Ghuls at least have decent AP now but I struggle to see myself taking them over Incubi or Sslyth.

- Medusae are okay on their own but don't seem to have any synergy with the Archon. And if you're using Coven they're entirely outclassed by DE Liquifier Wracks.



https://youtu.be/1ntuWUMZ_0Y


Is it enough? Very Happy

I agree with him, the Court 4+4 SslythsGhul is amazing
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False Son
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Archons - what is the best loadout?   Archons - what is the best loadout? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 09 2021, 05:37

@Oaka wrote:
With the way the battle reports have been going so far, if you get armywide +1 to hit on your turn 2 charge that's the game.

I would like to take the Animus Vitae on a Beastmaster, though, instead of an Archon.  It makes him seem like less of a tax unit and will be easier to hide than a Raider, with an 18" threat range on lobbing that horror bomb turn 2.  With a BS of 3+, though, I'd like an FAQ to confirm that the effects go off simply by throwing it, and not actually needing to hit.

This is what i have been doing, albeit with taking Splintermind as my Combat Drug to improve chances of success.  I like that there is no longer a need to destroy models with Animus Vitae in order to get the PfP bonus.


@krayd wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:


Which somehow makes me even sadder about it. 10 points for that piece of crap?!

I think that they tried to assign point values based on what you *can* do with a piece of wargear in certain combinations, rather than based on the stat of the wargear itself, which is pretty strange.

For example, the scissorhand costs more than the electrocorrosive whip, though in most circumstances, the whip is better. Apparently someone saw that if you take either experimental creations or you use Urien's aura, you can buff that scissorhand to a big S4, letting you wound T3 on 3s... and that warranted a 5 pt bump for some reason.

Similarly, I think whoever was assigning points was just looking at combos with Flayed Skull and Obsidian Rose warlord traits when they were looking at the huskblade.

I think you're on to something.  I use Obsidian Rose WLT and get my S4 Huskblade with a reroll to wound.  It works fairly well for not requiring a Relic weapon.  A Blaster Archon could throw a S9, reroll to wound shot at 24 inches.



The other thing that i thought about after my long post is how Kabalite Warriors are still able to take doubles of Blasters and Shredders at a time when weapon options are becoming more arbitrarily limited to the kit contents.  Scourges, too.  I may never understand this inconsistent approach.  Succubi can have Wych Weapons that aren't even in their kit, and Wyches can only have 1 of each Wych Weapon at 10 strong... so strange.

Furthermore, it seems like they used up a ton of their imagination on the Crusade rules.  I'm a bit resentful of how many fun things are in that section, when they will be locked in a format that isn't pick up and play friendly.
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