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 Cult of Strife Relics

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mynamelegend
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 09:29

The Realspace Raid rules say that you can use relics from the relevant kabal/cult/coven even though your warlord is not from that faction.

I've not seen the Book of Rust yet but, according to the goonhammer review, you need a full Cult of Strife detachment to unlock the Stratagems, and the Relics need you to take a Cult of Strife Warlord.

Anyone know if this is accurate and, if so, which takes precedence?


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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 10:49

To use the Codex Supplement Cult of Strife, it explicitly states you must use a Cult of Strife Detachment - and it goes on to clarify that it means one wherein all units are either Cult of Strife, Unaligned, or Blades for Hire.

Realspace Raid specifically calls out that you can pick the singular unique relic from the keyword linked to the Obsession you chose - but that doesn't mean it counts as a Cult of Strife detachment. As far as I can tell you can't use the Book of Rust relics, warlord traits, or stratagems in a Realspace Raid. CoS characters in a Realspace Raid detachment can only use the Warlord Trait and Relic from the codex itself.

What I can't tell for sure is if Prizes From The Dark City lets you buy relics for your Cult of Strife detachment. They're still listed as Artefacts of Cruelty Relics in Book of Rust - just like the wording for Prizes, so by my reading you could still give a Book of Rust Relic to a detachment of Cult of Strife even if your Warlord is not, by using the Prizes stratagem. But I could be wrong.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 11:34

Okay thanks. Looks like I'd just need to use a minimal Wych Cult contingent within a Realspace Raid plus a separate detachment of CoS to be on the safe side if I want to use anything from that book.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 11:47

"The Realspace Raid rules say that you can use relics from the relevant kabal/cult/coven even though your warlord is not from that faction."

To be honest, I'm really confused by this sentence in general.

It seems to imply that outside of the RSR detachment you can't take Coven artefacts unless your warlord is a Haemonculus, nor Cult artefacts unless your warlord is a Succubus.

However, I can't find any comparable restriction in the artefact or warlord trait rules. I'm honestly baffled by what this is trying to say. Question

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 11:58

Okay so this is gonna contain a lot of <CAPITAL LETTERS> but I feel it helps to make it clear when we're using a Keyword.

Your one free Relic per game has to come from the same <KEYWORD> as your Warlord. Normally this is <DRUKHARI>, as well as the one relic available to the <CULT>, <KABAL>, or <COVEN> the Warlord is from. For example: A <BLACK HEART> Archon as your Warlord allows your free Relic to be any <DRUKHARI> Relic, or the Writ of the Living Muse - the <BLACK HEART> Relic.

That doesn't mean you can't spend CP on other Relics - just that the free one is tied to the Warlord's subfaction.

If a Space Marines player plays an army with a <ULTRAMARINES> and a <IMPERIAL FISTS> detachment, and they're taking Bobby G as their Warlord, then their free Relic can be a <ADEPTUS ASTARTES> Relic or an <ULTRAMARINES> Relic, but if they want the <IMPERIAL FISTS> Relic they gotta shell out the CP for a bonus Relic.

So in the case of a Realspace Raid detachment consisting of a <BLACK HEART> Archon who is also your Warlord, a <CULT OF STRIFE> wych cult, and a <PROPHETS OF FLESH> coven, your free Relic can be a <DRUKHARI> Relic, or the unique relic from <CULT OF STRIFE>, <PROPHETS OF FLESH>, or <BLACK HEART>.

As an edit: It helps to remember that we don't actually have <COVEN>, <KABAL> or <WYCH CULT> relics anymore. Just <DRUKHARI> relics that can only go on certain models (such as the Nightmare Doll only going on a <HAEMONCULUS>). You're perfectly free to put the Helm of Spite on a Succubus if you want.

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 12:13

Or putting it another way...
If your Warlord is an Archon in a Realspace Raid detachment, your free Relic can be from either the generic Drukhari relics or any of the three chosen Obsessions (one each of coven, kabal, and cult) that make up the Realspace Raid. This Relic can go on any Character in your army - not just a model in the Realspace Raid.

And likewise, extra Warlord Traits gained through the Alliance of Agony or Tolerated Ambition stratagems can be taken from the standard ones, or the unique Obsession ones.
So in a theoretical Realspace Raid that's Black Heart/Cult of Strife/Prophets of Flesh, you could take Labyrinthine Cunning, Blood Dancer, and Diabolical Soothsayer - even though technically the Realspace Raid detachment isn't a Prophets, Black Heart, or Strife detachment.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 14:10

@mynamelegend, that is a beautiful explanation, TY for posting it!

Honestly, the benefits of Cult of Strife outweigh the benefits of Realspace Raiding Force. Re-rolls to hit of 1 from your Archon on the Cult units is the only real benefit IMO (Incubi get it regardless, dont think Coven will be very META and therefore dont really count).

Personally I will be trying out the RSRF just for kicks, but eventually I see dropping my Coven in favour of more Wyches (once stock returns in a month or two)
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 15:34

I think there may be something to be said for taking a lean Realspace detachment, then a Patrol of Cult of Strife to unlock Drazhar and another Succubus slot. Especially if you go for the Red Grief Blood Glaive on your Realspace succubus and burn a couple CP to unleash the Power Of Whipping Stuff on your Strife Patrol.
Though I expect we'll see at least some people seriously experiment with triple-patrol lists, at least in part so that they can run the most optimal possible Whipcubus, alongside the Razorflail Blender. In truth, that's the direction I'm personally leaning right now.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 15:59

@mynamelegend wrote:

Though I expect we'll see at least some people seriously experiment with triple-patrol lists, at least in part so that they can run the most optimal possible Whipcubus, alongside the Razorflail Blender. In truth, that's the direction I'm personally leaning right now.

I am leaning towards two patrols. Drive by shooting DT covens and black heart.
But I think about adding another coven patrol for flesh artists grotesques.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 17:05

@mynamelegend wrote:
Though I expect we'll see at least some people seriously experiment with triple-patrol lists, at least in part so that they can run the most optimal possible Whipcubus, alongside the Razorflail Blender. In truth, that's the direction I'm personally leaning right now.

Slightly off-topic, but I'm actually leaning towards triple patrols because of transports.

If I go RSR then it seems a complete waste not to do Black Heart, since it's the only Kabal that actually benefits from being in one. This is fine for Raiders but the BH benefits offer very little to Venoms - which really want a Poison Tongue, Toxin Crafters or MR/TE Kabal (none of which benefit Raiders).

Hence, if I want to run significant numbers of both of our transports, I really want to have 2 different Kabal detachmenta.

I suppose I could do a RSR detachment and then a PT, TC, or MR/TE Patrol alongside it but in order to get enough transports I'd probably have to put at least one mercenary unit in it, meaning said unit then doesn't get to benefit from the PfP bonus in the RSR detachment.

I don't know, it might still be better to go RSR + Patrol, it just feels like I'm trying to organise my army around one of those fox, chicken, grain puzzles. Razz

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 19:24

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
it just feels like I'm trying to organise my army around one of those fox, chicken, grain puzzles. Razz

Laughing Laughing

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Cult of Strife Relics   Cult of Strife Relics I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 25 2021, 17:00

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@mynamelegend wrote:
Though I expect we'll see at least some people seriously experiment with triple-patrol lists, at least in part so that they can run the most optimal possible Whipcubus, alongside the Razorflail Blender. In truth, that's the direction I'm personally leaning right now.

Slightly off-topic, but I'm actually leaning towards triple patrols because of transports.

If I go RSR then it seems a complete waste not to do Black Heart, since it's the only Kabal that actually benefits from being in one. This is fine for Raiders but the BH benefits offer very little to Venoms - which really want a Poison Tongue, Toxin Crafters or MR/TE Kabal (none of which benefit Raiders).

Hence, if I want to run significant numbers of both of our transports, I really want to have 2 different Kabal detachmenta.

I suppose I could do a RSR detachment and then a PT, TC, or MR/TE Patrol alongside it but in order to get enough transports I'd probably have to put at least one mercenary unit in it, meaning said unit then doesn't get to benefit from the PfP bonus in the RSR detachment.

I don't know, it might still be better to go RSR + Patrol, it just feels like I'm trying to organise my army around one of those fox, chicken, grain puzzles. Razz

i agree from the lists that im experimenting, the one that makes me more comfortable is a triple patrol, one black heart where i put my archon, raiders and lance ravagers for the rerolls, a poisoned tongue to unlock Drazhar and make him warlord for that sweet sweet hatred eternal and to put my venoms so they can benefit the most and lastly a cult of strife to unlock all the unholy crap we get from the book of rust and succubus powah
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