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Count Adhemar
Eldur
Soulless Samurai
Oaka
Kalmah
fisheyes
Cerve
The Strange Dark One
Dark Elf Dave
Cavash
CptMetal
sweetbacon
sekac
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sekac
Wych
sekac


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Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19 2021, 01:59

x01848m wrote:
What about 10 Haemoxytes with a pair of Ossefactors? I was thinking about this unit with a Haemonculus with the Twisted Animator WT as a mid-field objective holder. Most lists I see with Haemoxytes have them bare bones.  Is the Ossefactor worth it? I thought it might be a useful upgrade to have them contribute more, and possibly increase their mobility through the never stationary stratagem, but am curious to hear if people think it is a waste of points.  

I think an ossefactor is a fine weapon for 5 points, but it's also the kind of thing I would typically only buy with leftover points.

However, I do want to try 20 Dark Creed wracks with 4 ossefactors and a hexrifle. The sniper stratagem makes that an uncomfortable amount of shooting for enemy buff characters.
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Kalmah
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19 2021, 04:37

quick question: in a Coven only list, how many Talos / Chronos do you play?
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19 2021, 16:58

I ran the numbers for sniping out an Apothicary with 4 Ossifactors. You only do 2-3 damage, which isnt great.

I ran 3x10 wracks over the weekend, and they continue to do really well. I have found that I play better when I have an Anvil unit in the mid field to jank around.

Considering throwing in 1 ossifactor for the Fire and Fade extra movement. Could have been handy in both games.
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sekac
Wych
sekac


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19 2021, 17:45

fisheyes wrote:
I ran the numbers for sniping out an Apothicary with 4 Ossifactors. You only do 2-3 damage, which isnt great.

I ran 3x10 wracks over the weekend, and they continue to do really well. I have found that I play better when I have an Anvil unit in the mid field to jank around.

Considering throwing in 1 ossifactor for the Fire and Fade extra movement. Could have been handy in both games.

The 4 ossefactors do just over 3 wounds. The Hexrifle is about half a wound (ignoring the mortal wound possibility). It's not about reliably sniping characters, but about dictating where your opponent places their characters and how they use them. Controlling your opponent's choices can be just as good as outright killing them.
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Gelmir
Sybarite
Gelmir


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19 2021, 17:54

So I had a silly thought when messing around with different lists...

I want to try a Realspace Raid at least once. And I think for coven it will only have the mandatory (Master) Haemonculus and 10 Haemoxyte Wracks. In a RSR I would pretty much always spend 1 point on Alliance of Agony, giving all 3 HQ's a Warlord Trait.

If I take the Twisted Animator trait for the Haemy, and Obsessive Collectors (and an other custom obsession I haven't picked yet), that means those Haemoxytes don't only ignore the first failed save (they would have a 5+ and a 5+++ btw), but they also recover D3 models every command phase, AND recover D3 models when they kill a unit.
Yes, that's 200 points, but how many points would an opponent have to throw at it to remove it? Also, it fits in a Raider, so it's not hard to get them to any objective really.
I'm not sure what second obsession I'd take with that though.

Also, if I want more coven (Grotesques and Talos), those would go in a second detachment with Drazhar and some Incubi. That way, they can get another obsession that fits the Pain Engines better.

Thoughts?

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Oaka
Kabalite Warrior
Oaka


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 20 2021, 13:53

Gelmir wrote:

If I take the Twisted Animator trait for the Haemy, and Obsessive Collectors (and an other custom obsession I haven't picked yet), that means those Haemoxytes don't only ignore the first failed save (they would have a 5+ and a 5+++ btw), but they also recover D3 models every command phase, AND recover D3 models when they kill a unit.
Yes, that's 200 points, but how many points would an opponent have to throw at it to remove it? Also, it fits in a Raider, so it's not hard to get them to any objective really.
I'm not sure what second obsession I'd take with that though.

Since you want to try to kill enemy units in melee to bring back models, I'm thinking Master Torturers for the second trait, allowing the unit of Haemoxytes to reroll wounds each fight phase for 0 CP. That's a straight up 50% increase in wounds caused. However, I don't think Obsessive Collectors will activate that often, as you will need to take casualties before you fight and if you're in a Raider that's less likely. 10 Haemoxytes is still only 21 attacks, so 14 hits and 7 wounds (10-11 with the stratagem). I don't see that finishing off a lot of units.

For your RSR Coven choice of a Haemonculus and Haemoxyte unit, I think you would want to go PoF to make those Haemoxytes tougher to kill with S6-7, or Dark Creed. Dark Creed Haemoxytes will be Ld9 and have a -1Ld aura, and so will be getting +1 to hit against everything. This only helps on turn 2 because turn 3 PfP also gives +1 to hit but you also get access to the turn-off objective secured warlord trait for the Haemonculus which can decide a game if played at the right time.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 20 2021, 14:09

I've just written a Covens list and included 10 Artists of the Flesh Haemoxytes with a Haemonculus with Twisted Animator WL trait. So they will have T5, 5+/5++/5+++ (4++ turn 4 onwards), zero damage from first failed save each phase, -1 damage from all other attacks and recovering 1d3 models every command phase.

Not sure how that compares to a Court of Sslyths and Ur-Ghuls in terms of resilience but I would think it's pretty decent.

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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 20 2021, 22:43

Oaka wrote:
Gelmir wrote:

If I take the Twisted Animator trait for the Haemy, and Obsessive Collectors (and an other custom obsession I haven't picked yet), that means those Haemoxytes don't only ignore the first failed save (they would have a 5+ and a 5+++ btw), but they also recover D3 models every command phase, AND recover D3 models when they kill a unit.
Yes, that's 200 points, but how many points would an opponent have to throw at it to remove it? Also, it fits in a Raider, so it's not hard to get them to any objective really.
I'm not sure what second obsession I'd take with that though.

Since you want to try to kill enemy units in melee to bring back models, I'm thinking Master Torturers for the second trait, allowing the unit of Haemoxytes to reroll wounds each fight phase for 0 CP.  That's a straight up 50% increase in wounds caused.  However, I don't think Obsessive Collectors will activate that often, as you will need to take casualties before you fight and if you're in a Raider that's less likely.  10 Haemoxytes is still only 21 attacks, so 14 hits and 7 wounds (10-11 with the stratagem).  I don't see that finishing off a lot of units.

For your RSR Coven choice of a Haemonculus and Haemoxyte unit, I think you would want to go PoF to make those Haemoxytes tougher to kill with S6-7, or Dark Creed.  Dark Creed Haemoxytes will be Ld9 and have a -1Ld aura, and so will be getting +1 to hit against everything.  This only helps on turn 2 because turn 3 PfP also gives +1 to hit but you also get access to the turn-off objective secured warlord trait for the Haemonculus which can decide a game if played at the right time.

Oh, that is a great suggestion! Writing it down right away, thanks! Very Happy


Count Adhemar wrote:
I've just written a Covens list and included 10 Artists of the Flesh Haemoxytes with a Haemonculus with Twisted Animator WL trait. So they will have T5, 5+/5++/5+++ (4++ turn 4 onwards), zero damage from first failed save each phase, -1 damage from all other attacks and recovering 1d3 models every command phase.

Not sure how that compares to a Court of Sslyths and Ur-Ghuls in terms of resilience but I would think it's pretty decent.

I'm not sure if Artists of the Flesh is that effective on Wracks, since it reduces the damage by one, but to a minimum of 1, and they still only have one wound. Does mean you have less saves to make, but I think that obsession works better on models with more wounds.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 20 2021, 22:59

Gelmir wrote:
I'm not sure if Artists of the Flesh is that effective on Wracks, since it reduces the damage by one, but to a minimum of 1, and they still only have one wound. Does mean you have less saves to make, but I think that obsession works better on models with more wounds.

There's still a fair amount of D2 weaponry out there that it would be effective against and ofc it cuts down the amount of FNP rolls you need to make but yes, you could swap it out for PoF instead and it would probably still be as good or better. Plus you can then take a Vexator Mask...

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Azdrubael
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 21 2021, 07:03

Il probably run mine in MSU style in Grisly Trophies Venoms with Ooga Booga Haemy. Dark Creed, Electrocorrosive Whip, Ossefactor - attacking other objective holders and stealing obsec from them. They will hit in melee on 2+ from turn 1 most of the things and Electrocorrosive is llike having another Wrack in a unit, 6 attacks from Acothyst.

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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 21 2021, 17:23

I tried the Obsessive Collectors/Master Torturers combo, and wasnt impressed. Any weak unit that was near my lines was getting targetted by my Reavers for the 4++ CoS Strat.

Switched it to Splinterblades/Master Torturers, and VERY happy with the combo.

I am a little worried about the Morty match up. Even though he takes away our Master Torturer ability (no rerolls within 9" of him), we still get our exploding 6's from Splinterblades.

Did a few trial rolls, and the Splinterblade bonus seemed to be slightly better than the 6's Auto Wound (sorry, cant recall the name).

Going to continue practicing the list with my 30 MT/SB combo. Hope to play against DG or DA to see how it holds up against the big boys Wink

My gut reaction at the release was Coven were the weakest sub-faction. Its quickly becoming the anchor to my list, and scoring ability.
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sweetbacon
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 04:33

Can you combine Splinterblade and the 6’s auto wound obsession so every 6 to hit does an additional hit AND does an auto wound?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar


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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 08:22

sweetbacon wrote:
Can you combine Splinterblade and the 6’s auto wound obsession so every 6 to hit does an additional hit AND does an auto wound?

Yes. Neither is all-consuming.

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sweetbacon
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 14:35

That’s actually a potentially really interesting combo on Wracks then. I’ve been thinking about trying to run melee lots of Wracks and this might make them more interesting than Coven of Twelve. Does each six to hit that procs and extra hit also proc an extra auto wound?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 14:39

An unmodified 6 to hit would get you one automatic wound and one extra hit. The extra hit is not an unmodified 6 though so no auto wound.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 15:36

Okay, thanks. Still a very interesting combo for melee Wracks though.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 15:49

It's probably the best (melee) offensive option for Wracks but if I want melee offense I'd choose Wyches or Incubi over Wracks.

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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 16:41

I’m thinking why do you have choose only one? I want all three. Having backfield objective holders that can push forward late game after the first wave of my assault and threaten stuff in melee is really useful.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 16:55

I generally dont put ALL my wracks in at the same time, so the Master Torturer seems to be the strongest CC buff.

Until the new codex, I was running a Ravenguard Successor with +1" advance and charge, and the same Splinterblade exploding 6's.

If you are getting to use Master Torturers, Splinterblade is slightly better. If not, than the Auto Wound is better.

How many wracks are you thinking? DT seems to be the most "Meta" at the moment, but the new Ad Mech codex will throw everything in the air once it drops.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 17:12

Torturer’s Craft is only 1CP if you use it on 10 Wracks. So unless you’re running 20 man squads, I’d much rather have Splinterblades and 6’s auto wound to pump up my combat Wracks melee damage.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 22 2021, 20:58

Torturers Craft goes down to 0CP (1-1=0). Assuming you are running 10 men in the unit

I like "free" Very Happy

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 16:47

For MoM, when a 6 to hit auto wounds, does the attack sequence end life for Precision Blows or do you set that wound aside in a wound pool and then roll the normal wound roll for that hit?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 16:53

My understanding is you get 1 auto wound, and 1 hit. The second hit does not auto wound, since you didnt roll a 6 for it.

But I am more of a garage-hammer guy, and I usually interpret rules to make them less powerful (and am generally wrong as a result XD )
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 23 2021, 20:09

sweetbacon wrote:
For MoM, when a 6 to hit auto wounds, does the attack sequence end life for Precision Blows or do you set that wound aside in a wound pool and then roll the normal wound roll for that hit?

You would just skip step 2 of the attack sequence and go to step 3 for that attack.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack Attack   Wrack Attack - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 26 2021, 15:30

Got in a few games last weekend, and tried out the new hotness of DT Liquifiers.

WOW.

Built a list around a double DT Patrol, with 16 liquifiers total. DAMN did they do a lot of work. If they shot at something, that something DIED HARD.

I think the wrack build is certainly the DT Liquifier build. None of the other combos I tried have come close to this level of destruction.

Something to note: I played two games, first against DE (who did not take any Liquifiers), the second against a standard Sisters list. Won the DE match up (barely), and got kicked by the Sisters player pretty hard (down to 5 units on the board at the start of turn 3 XD).

I dont know if its OMG BROKEN like people are screaming, but it is VERY competitive. My next list will involve two boats of 5 Liquifiers (2 Wracks and 3 Grots for 11 spots on the Raider), backed up by 3 in a Haemoxyte blob walking up the field
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