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 HERO's New Book and New Lists

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Lupercal
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Lupercal

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 23 2021, 15:43

I really like your list, but there is one small problem with it, in that you can not take a Cult of Strife Relic in your army (so the Dark Lotus Poison) unless your Warlord is Cult of Strife.

I am putting together a very similar list, only I am planning to run 3 patrols including 2 Succubi(one of which is Master and Warlord), 2 Archons(both of which are masters for 2 Trueborn squads), and Drahzar.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 23 2021, 16:06

@Lupercal wrote:
I really like your list, but there is one small problem with it, in that you can not take a Cult of Strife Relic in your army (so the Dark Lotus Poison) unless your Warlord is Cult of Strife.

I am putting together a very similar list, only I am planning to run 3 patrols including 2 Succubi(one of which is Master and Warlord), 2 Archons(both of which are masters for 2 Trueborn squads), and Drahzar.

Aye, good catch! and back at ya - You can't have 2 Master Archons and therefore, 2 Trueborn lol. Looks like they're deliberately trying to hold us back!

I think what needs to happen is Drazhar loses the WL trait (which sucks), and the Archon picks up either Ancient Evil or Hatred Eternal.

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Lupercal
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Lupercal

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 23 2021, 16:13

You can have 2 Master Archons if they are in different detachments and from different kabals. I will be running one as Black Heart and the other as Obsidian Rose. I think bringing 2 Trueborn Squads is worth it.

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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 23 2021, 17:28

@Lupercal wrote:
You can have 2 Master Archons if they are in different detachments and from different kabals. I will be running one as Black Heart and the other as Obsidian Rose. I think bringing 2 Trueborn Squads is worth it.

Ah, I see what you mean. OK that makes sense.

What does the rest of the list look like?

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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 23 2021, 18:39

Another take on my list can look like..

Quote :
WORK IN PROGRESS
--------------------------------
2000, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++Patrol #1 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Huskblade, BPistol = 90
WL: Hatred Eternal
Relic: Djin Blade
+Raider, Lance = 85

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, PGL, 2x Blaster, Lance = 235
+Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #2 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Drazhar = 135
+Raider, Lance = 85

TROOP:
10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #3 - Cult of Strife+++

HQ:
Master Succubus: Adrenalight = 75
WL: Competitive Edge
Relic: Triptych Whip

Succubus: Razorflail, Adrenalight = 60
WL: Precision Blows
Relic: Dark Lotus Toxin

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Agonizer/BPistol, Grave Lotus = 130
5X Wyches, BPistol, Grave Lotus = 60

It drops the second full Wyches down in this sense, but gives me +1 Blaster and Dark Lance, and more Poison shots. Otherwise, I was going to keep the 8x Wyches, but they won't have access to special weapons.

Tough choice, but I've also allocated the WL trait to the Archon, gave him Hatred Eternal so it significantly jumps his damage output while nerfing Drazhar's a little. However, it balances out the characters in terms of melee potential.

There's just so many good choices! For 80 points, instead of 8x Wyches, you can also buy 5x Incubi Smile

For example..

Quote :
WORK IN PROGRESS
--------------------------------
1988, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++Patrol #1 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Huskblade, BPistol = 90
Relic: Djin Blade
WL: Hatred Eternal

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, 2x Blaster, Lance = 235
Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
Raider, Racks, Lance

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #2 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Drazhar = 135
Raider, Lance = 85

TROOP:
5x Warriors, Blaster = 135
Raider, Lance

ELITE:
8x Incubi = 128
Raider, Lance = 85

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #3 - Cult of Strife+++

HQ:
Master Succubus: Adrenalight = 75
WL: Competitive Edge
Relic: Triptych Whip

Succubus: Razorflail, Adrenalight = 60
WL: Precision Blows
Relic: Dark Lotus Toxin

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Grave Lotus = 120

Decisions.. decisions..

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Last edited by HERO on Fri Mar 26 2021, 03:52; edited 1 time in total
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 00:47

You may want to double check your point costs for Raiders. Seems off to me (I could be mistaken)

With your warriors only carrying 7 splinter rifles in the squad, are Racks still worth it for the 5pts? Chain Snares might be a better investment, if you want to spend those points on the vehicle.
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Lupercal
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Lupercal

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 02:29

@fisheyes wrote:
You may want to double check your point costs for Raiders. Seems off to me (I could be mistaken)

With your warriors only carrying 7 splinter rifles in the squad, are Racks still worth it for the 5pts? Chain Snares might be a better investment, if you want to spend those points on the vehicle.

Racks are more than that. Maybe that is where you are seeing something off?

I saw some mathhammer that said racks pay for themselves after you rapid fire with 6 guns, I think they might be worth it with 7 but I haven't tried them myself yet.
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Lupercal
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Lupercal

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 02:56

@HERO wrote:
@Lupercal wrote:
You can have 2 Master Archons if they are in different detachments and from different kabals. I will be running one as Black Heart and the other as Obsidian Rose. I think bringing 2 Trueborn Squads is worth it.

Ah, I see what you mean. OK that makes sense.

What does the rest of the list look like?


I posted my WIP list on the forum if you want to take a look.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 03:00

@fisheyes wrote:
You may want to double check your point costs for Raiders. Seems off to me (I could be mistaken)

With your warriors only carrying 7 splinter rifles in the squad, are Racks still worth it for the 5pts? Chain Snares might be a better investment, if you want to spend those points on the vehicle.

Points are right, I have the book in front of me. If you're going off Auspex Tactics, I corrected him today Very Happy

I also find the racks to be worth it. 4x10 Warriors with Racks are shooting 56 poison shots from 24". That alone makes it worthwhile IMO.

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fisheyes
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 14:06

Please get in some games and let us know how the list performs. I am very currios to see some "real world" results.

On paper we should be amazing. In real life I imagine there is a lot of small things that we can forget/mis-play that will cost us games. Exactly how a Glasshammer army should be Smile
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 15:24

@fisheyes wrote:
Please get in some games and let us know how the list performs. I am very currios to see some "real world" results.

On paper we should be amazing. In real life I imagine there is a lot of small things that we can forget/mis-play that will cost us games. Exactly how a Glasshammer army should be Smile

Haha, yeah. Been a crazy year, new kid (6mo now!), first time dad, this stupid pandemic that won't end, been waiting in line for a vaccine. Once it all settles, I'm sure to spam out some games (when the kid is asleep).

This codex is great, I love it. The fact that I want to take my Wyches and Succubi again are worth it! I'd be willing to play on TTS, but it takes FOREVER to do things that would take seconds IRL. It's so painful.

I think I've finalized the list:
Quote :
WORK IN PROGRESS
--------------------------------
2000, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++Patrol #1 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Huskblade, BPistol = 90
WL: Hatred Eternal
Relic: Djin Blade
+Raider, Lance = 85

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, PGL, 2x Blaster, Lance = 235
+Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #2 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Drazhar = 135
+Raider, Lance = 85

TROOP:
10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks, Lance

HEAVY:
Ravager, Lances = 140

+++Patrol #3 - Cult of Strife+++

HQ:
Master Succubus: Adrenalight = 75
WL: Competitive Edge
Relic: Triptych Whip

Succubus: Razorflail, Adrenalight = 60
WL: Precision Blows
Relic: Dark Lotus Toxin

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Agonizer/BPistol, Grave Lotus = 130
5X Wyches, BPistol, Grave Lotus = 55

I added an Agonizer on the Bloodbrides that I can turn into Morvaine's Agonizer, which on hit, traps unit in combat (no Fall Back).

The hurt analysis looks like this:
19 Dark Lances at 36" (9 Ravager, 6 Raiders, 4 Warriors) with Black Heart re-rolls
56 Poison shots at 24" (from 4x7 Warriors in the Raider with Racks)
8 Blasters at 18" (from the Warriors in Raiders)
4 Insane melee heroes (Djin Blade/EH Archon, Drazhar, 2x Strife Succubi)
and an insane amount of Wych attacks from both the Bloodbrides and Wyches

Secondaries will focus on movement and killing stuff, not completely sold on the Drukhari special Purge because I'm not entirely melee focused, but since your characters are great in duels, its definitely considerable. So basically, Engage on All Fronts, Thin Their Ranks, Bring It Down.

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Last edited by HERO on Fri Mar 26 2021, 03:54; edited 2 times in total
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Vailex
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Vailex

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 19:50

I don't see the appeal on bloodbrides for 12pts a model. WS 2 is only good if you get in there turn 1 or 2. It will be turn 2 most of the time. AP -4 seems like overkill as well as most things have an invul these days. You have to be very specific as to what you throw these girls at to really get your points back.

Am I nuts?

For 2 pts a model I would rather put that on Trueborn or even the buffed Wracks.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 20:08

@Vailex wrote:
I don't see the appeal on bloodbrides for 12pts a model.  WS 2 is only good if you get in there turn 1 or 2.  It will be turn 2 most of the time.  AP -4 seems like overkill as well as most things have an invul these days.  You have to be very specific as to what you throw these girls at to really get your points back.  

Am I nuts?

For 2 pts a model I would rather put that on Trueborn or even the buffed Wracks.

Already got the Trueborn my dude. They're my next go-to unit for 1. flavor 2. patrol requirement 3. side-upgrade to the lack of Incubi in the list 4. for 2 points, they're effectively another Wych in terms of damage, and 5. +20 points doesn't buy you much of anything else.

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Vailex
Hellion
Vailex

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 24 2021, 21:13

@HERO wrote:
@Vailex wrote:
I don't see the appeal on bloodbrides for 12pts a model.  WS 2 is only good if you get in there turn 1 or 2.  It will be turn 2 most of the time.  AP -4 seems like overkill as well as most things have an invul these days.  You have to be very specific as to what you throw these girls at to really get your points back.  

Am I nuts?

For 2 pts a model I would rather put that on Trueborn or even the buffed Wracks.

Already got the Trueborn my dude. They're my next go-to unit for 1. flavor 2. patrol requirement 3. side-upgrade to the lack of Incubi in the list 4. for 2 points, they're effectively another Wych in terms of damage, and 5. +20 points doesn't buy you much of anything else.

Welp give your list a try. If the AP-4 doesnt help much you could always spend those points on a shock prow, chain flails or grisly trophy.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 25 2021, 02:13

@Vailex wrote:
@HERO wrote:
@Vailex wrote:
I don't see the appeal on bloodbrides for 12pts a model.  WS 2 is only good if you get in there turn 1 or 2.  It will be turn 2 most of the time.  AP -4 seems like overkill as well as most things have an invul these days.  You have to be very specific as to what you throw these girls at to really get your points back.  

Am I nuts?

For 2 pts a model I would rather put that on Trueborn or even the buffed Wracks.

Already got the Trueborn my dude. They're my next go-to unit for 1. flavor 2. patrol requirement 3. side-upgrade to the lack of Incubi in the list 4. for 2 points, they're effectively another Wych in terms of damage, and 5. +20 points doesn't buy you much of anything else.

Welp give your list a try.  If the AP-4 doesnt help much you could always spend those points on a shock prow, chain flails or grisly trophy.

Likewise if they don't work out, we always have Incubi as well as our other CC choice. The possibilities are what makes this codex good. When was the last time we could say if not Wyches..

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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 25 2021, 10:22

Is it possible to make Drazhar warlord for Hatred Eternal and then buy Ancient Evil for the Archon?

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Lupercal
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 25 2021, 15:27

@SERAFF wrote:
Is it possible to make Drazhar warlord for Hatred Eternal and then buy Ancient Evil for the Archon?

He had it like that originally, but if you don't take one of the Cult of Strife Succubi as your official Warlord, then you can't take the Cult of Strife supplement Relics (in this case the Dark Lotus Toxin).
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 25 2021, 15:47

@Lupercal wrote:
@SERAFF wrote:
Is it possible to make Drazhar warlord for Hatred Eternal and then buy Ancient Evil for the Archon?

He had it like that originally, but if you don't take one of the Cult of Strife Succubi as your official Warlord, then you can't take the Cult of Strife supplement Relics (in this case the Dark Lotus Toxin).

Yup, exactly. There's quite a bit of army comp restrictions that are not very clear at first, and you need to do some reading at the top of the pages to fully grasp all you can and cannot do.

The fact is, Hatred Eternal on Drazhar is great, but probably more needed on the Archon to make him a somewhat melee threat. My current logic is this: If I want killy, I NEED Hatred Eternal on the Djin Archon to get somewhat decent kill numbers. Drazhar just flat out doesn't need it because he's such a beast. Hatred Eternal only makes a killing machine more killy. That, and I think keeping the Relic on the Succbi is more impactful over the course of the game; giving me 4 solid melee contenders.

If I wanted Ancient Evil, I would debate over even having Djin Blade on the Archon to save the CP. Don't get me wrong, Ancient Evil is great, and interchangeable with Hatred Eternal depending on your meta. I will need more games and to see what direction GTs are going in to make a call on what is superior.

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Drek
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 02:54

I love this list so much I joined the site! I’ll be taking something similar to a GT at the end of April, and will have some test games along the way. I look forward to the conversation.

For the Archon I’m leaning toward Ancient Evil over Hatred Eternal. The Counter Offensive Stratagem is such a pain when combo charging, and the ability to make a unit fight last is very appealing. I love the idea of having Hatred Eternal give me another beat stick, don’t get me wrong. I wish I could take four traits! But if it’s one or the other, I’m going with Ancient Evil for now. I’ll see how it does in play testing.
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HERO
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HERO

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 03:25

@Drek wrote:
I love this list so much I joined the site! I’ll be taking something similar to a GT at the end of April, and will have some test games along the way. I look forward to the conversation.

For the Archon I’m leaning toward Ancient Evil over Hatred Eternal. The Counter Offensive Stratagem is such a pain when combo charging, and the ability to make a unit fight last is very appealing. I love the idea of having Hatred Eternal give me another beat stick, don’t get me wrong. I wish I could take four traits! But if it’s one or the other, I’m going with Ancient Evil for now. I’ll see how it does in play testing.

Cheers mate. Ancient Evil certainly has good value, especially because of the point that you mentioned and also there's a lot of abilities out there that can possibly make your strike first, strike last. As we all know, anything that can strike in front of our Succubi or Wyches have a good chance of taking a few out, and this blunts your melee power a lot. Just check out what your meta is bringing and plan accordingly!

I'm going to update the first list with this latest one that I posted with Bloodbrides.

However, another combo that I think is worthwhile exploring is Competitive Edge and Razorflails. It will almost certainly see an FAQ, but I have to mention it due to the sheer ridiculousness of it. Of course, this also means you can pair it up with DLT (Dark Lotus Toxin). There's definitely some controversy on the legitimacy of this combo, so for now, I'll continue to play this list as is.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 03:47

@Lupercal wrote:
I really like your list, but there is one small problem with it, in that you can not take a Cult of Strife Relic in your army (so the Dark Lotus Poison) unless your Warlord is Cult of Strife.

I am putting together a very similar list, only I am planning to run 3 patrols including 2 Succubi(one of which is Master and Warlord), 2 Archons(both of which are masters for 2 Trueborn squads), and Drahzar.

Revisiting this for a second, but in arguing with several rules lawyers, I actually think we can if we're paying for it using Prizes from the Dark City. This will definitely need a FAQ I think, but there's nothing currently written in the Rust Book that restricts this. The wording right now restricts the free Relic to Cult of Strife Warlord.

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Alezya
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 15:30

You get the free relic for the detachment in which you have your warlord.

For your Cult of Strife Detachment, you can pay 2 CPs for Prizes from the Dark City.
The list is legit.
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 15:52

@HERO wrote:
However, another combo that I think is worthwhile exploring is Competitive Edge and Razorflails. It will almost certainly see an FAQ, but I have to mention it due to the sheer ridiculousness of it. Of course, this also means you can pair it up with DLT (Dark Lotus Toxin). There's definitely some controversy on the legitimacy of this combo, so for now, I'll continue to play this list as is.

I see the FAQ nerf bat in the near future. Nick Nanavati used this to finish off a knight like 8-10 wounds, kill a squad of Metallica dogs, and a squad of electro priests in 2 turns, playing John Lennon. John was saying that it is absurd.

As a side note, because I have never done it yet, what rules do you use to outflank infantry? Nick was outflanking 3 units of 5 liquefier wracks.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 17:05

@Dalamar wrote:
@HERO wrote:
However, another combo that I think is worthwhile exploring is Competitive Edge and Razorflails. It will almost certainly see an FAQ, but I have to mention it due to the sheer ridiculousness of it. Of course, this also means you can pair it up with DLT (Dark Lotus Toxin). There's definitely some controversy on the legitimacy of this combo, so for now, I'll continue to play this list as is.

I see the FAQ nerf bat in the near future.  Nick Nanavati used this to finish off a knight like 8-10 wounds, kill a squad of Metallica dogs, and a squad of electro priests in 2 turns, playing John Lennon. John was saying that it is absurd.  

As a side note, because I have never done it yet, what rules do you use to outflank infantry?  Nick was outflanking 3 units of 5 liquefier wracks.

There's a stratagem that allows you to place 1-9 power level worth of units in Strategic Reserves for 1 CP (or pay more to put more in SR). Since wracks are 3 PL, you can put all 3 in for 1 CP.

On turn 2 they can arrive wholly within 6" of any board edge except your opponent's and not within their deployment zone either. On turn 3, you can arrive wholly within 6" of any board edge (hello, Deploy Scramblers). It is almost always a good investment.

My favorite uses in the previous book were 1 haemonculus, 5 wracks, 1 sslyth for 1 CP or 1 Ravager, 1 sslyth. Need to figure out the good uses for it now, but DT wracks with liqs seems obvious.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

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Join date : 2012-04-13

HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 26 2021, 18:08

@Dalamar wrote:
@HERO wrote:
However, another combo that I think is worthwhile exploring is Competitive Edge and Razorflails. It will almost certainly see an FAQ, but I have to mention it due to the sheer ridiculousness of it. Of course, this also means you can pair it up with DLT (Dark Lotus Toxin). There's definitely some controversy on the legitimacy of this combo, so for now, I'll continue to play this list as is.

I see the FAQ nerf bat in the near future.  Nick Nanavati used this to finish off a knight like 8-10 wounds, kill a squad of Metallica dogs, and a squad of electro priests in 2 turns, playing John Lennon. John was saying that it is absurd.  

As a side note, because I have never done it yet, what rules do you use to outflank infantry?  Nick was outflanking 3 units of 5 liquefier wracks.

Yeah, I watched the same. I knew about it before, but didn't mention it in-thread because I don't think that was the way its intended.

As for outflanking, I don't have any currently, as the general approach for the army is to threaten with firepower (19 lances, 8 blasters, 56 poison) from range, draw in, and then counter-attack with melee elements. It's a zoning army with melee designed to flush things off points. This means that it might be worth keeping your heroes together so it's more like a hit-squad to eliminate the more durable units from points.

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PostSubject: Re: HERO's New Book and New Lists   HERO's New Book and New Lists - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

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