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 Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

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Grimcrimm
Kabalite Warrior
Grimcrimm

Posts : 188
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Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:17

Its good to have 5e trueborn stats back but unless the shardcarbine is now our standard gun again our firepower (the reason we take kabalites) is still lacking. The problem here is ap1 is standard ap2 exists often (and i fight imperial fists) at least in cover armor 3+ (but not me)

The shard cannon is a worse bolter except against targets that out basic guns are already effective against. I ran 4 scourges with splintercannons i wont now, i needed mass fire not damage quality

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I dig the salt mines deeper (Babyhammer 40k) and now introducing "The big book of buffs" Brought to you by Tau space marines "cant keep beat em in melee AND they will shoot you dead"


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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

Posts : 1372
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:23

@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

... such as a +1 to its save and a 50% increase in offensive effectiveness versus Marines?

Where is this 50% increase in effectiveness vs. Marines coming from?



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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:23

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
+1A is an upgrade full stop

In the same way as buying a car for someone who can't drive is an upgrade. Technically they're better off but they're really not going to get much use out of it.

Of course, they could always sell the car. Wish we could sell the Attack and buy something that would actually be useful instead!

Again, find out you're paying for it, THEN whine about it.

You're like a kid at a birthday party crying because the free toys you got aren't the ones you wanted.

Your parents would be so embarassed.

Leave the insults out of it please.

If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

Would you prefer to pay 8 points for 1 attack, or 8 points for 2 attacks?

We both know what the answer is.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:25

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

... such as a +1 to its save and a 50% increase in offensive effectiveness versus Marines?

Where is this 50% increase in effectiveness vs. Marines coming from?

Referencing the Splinter Cannon changes, which works out to a 50% increase in damage dealt to Marines even compared to the current Cannon in rapid fire range.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:28

@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

... such as a +1 to its save and a 50% increase in offensive effectiveness versus Marines?

I think you're conflating two different things there. The Kabalite warrior got +1Sv and the Splinter Cannon got a boost vs MEQ.

IF the Splinter Rifle gets a similar change then that will be a more useful improvement to the Kabalite Warrior unit. You'd think they would lead with that though, rather than trying to tell us that we're finally getting what we've been asking for with the extra attack. Personally I'm willing to bet that we're not getting AP-1 and D2 on rifles though. Maybe, MAYBE, we'll get AP-1 but I wouldn't hold your breath for anything more than that.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:31

@Burnage wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

... such as a +1 to its save and a 50% increase in offensive effectiveness versus Marines?

Where is this 50% increase in effectiveness vs. Marines coming from?

Referencing the Splinter Cannon changes, which works out to a 50% increase in damage dealt to Marines even compared to the current Cannon in rapid fire range.


So then that means a boost for 1 model in 10. And then only if the squad remains stationary.


Also, I love how this "boost" in effectiveness leaves the new splinter cannon in a worse position against new marines than the old one was against old marines (and it wasn't as if the old one was great to begin with).

2 Splinter Cannons in optimum range used to average 1.33 dead Marines.

Now, two of our new & improved, super-duper, hyper-efficient, Marine-killing splinter cannons average... 1 dead marine.

Wow. I stand corrected. Truly all our prayers have been answered. I'm sure Marine players are already trembling around the world at our unrivalled firepower. Rolling Eyes

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:33

@sekac wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
+1A is an upgrade full stop

In the same way as buying a car for someone who can't drive is an upgrade. Technically they're better off but they're really not going to get much use out of it.

Of course, they could always sell the car. Wish we could sell the Attack and buy something that would actually be useful instead!

Again, find out you're paying for it, THEN whine about it.

You're like a kid at a birthday party crying because the free toys you got aren't the ones you wanted.

Your parents would be so embarassed.

Leave the insults out of it please.

If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

Would you prefer to pay 8 points for 1 attack, or 8 points for 2 attacks?

We both know what the answer is.

I would prefer to pay 8 points for a shooting unit that actually shoots well. I genuinely don't care at all about +1A on Kabalite Warriors. It is not going to change my unit selection in any way, shape or form and is most likely going to be used to justify their points value, whatever that may end up being, whilst not making any significant contribution to their effectiveness as a unit.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:39

@sekac wrote:
Would you prefer to pay 8 points for 1 attack, or 8 points for 2 attacks?

We both know what the answer is.

Where's the option to pay 7pts for 1 attack?

Or to pay 8pts for 1 attack and a worthwhile gun?

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@TeenageAngst wrote:
Never trust the French.
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JRG
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 16:53

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@JRG wrote:
If anyone is still holding out hope for new models outside of Lelith, please let me know as I'd like to steal your optimism.  Twisted Evil

Are you kidding?

GW has already moved on to showcasing models for future books. We're just NPC faction #6.

I'll put you down as less than optimistic Soulless Very Happy
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:00

@JRG wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@JRG wrote:
If anyone is still holding out hope for new models outside of Lelith, please let me know as I'd like to steal your optimism.  Twisted Evil

Are you kidding?

GW has already moved on to showcasing models for future books. We're just NPC faction #6.

I'll put you down as less than optimistic Soulless Very Happy

lol!


I mean, I'd like nothing more than to be wrong. But if GW do have more DE models lined up, it's a bit weird for them to instead be showcasing a SoB dreadknight thing instead. Razz

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Kalmah
Kabalite Warrior
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:11

Can we put it straight? NOTHING went down, in fact, almost EVERYTHING went up, just not as high as you would have love to.
The splinter Canon is just a sidegrade, so its just a change up (we can argue a lot here i know), but the Kabalites, even if just a little, is better than what it was, and nobody can argue about that.
And again, when we will have in our possession all the pieces, we'll start doing the puzzle.

Also, i hope nobody is surprised that they will need to rethink their army list? we're changing edition, sure i hope this will come with a lot of changes, and not just power creep btw.

Now, if after 10 years you'Re still unhappy with the way Drukhari plays, what prevent you from changing factions? you know? the good ones? and don't tell me it's the lore that keep you spending money on such a poor designed game (as per your terms)....If you're such in love with the lore, just buy the books and get on with it.... I mean....after 10 years.....come on guys! Either you are masochists or you're stuck in a time loop...Its not as if Warhammer was the only wargame.

i'm not saying you gotta be happy about the changes, but tone down a little bit your skepticism after only 2 datasheets and one weapon profile. Nobody said that those changes were exactly what they were wishing for, we're only saying that those changes are indeed upgrade, but that we'll need a little bit more datas before we can make up our mind.

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Skulnbonz
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:26

My god, if I hear one more person claim that "Oh, I am SURE splinter cannons will be assault on venoms" i am going to pop a vessel.

First off, no you are not. You guys are quick to point out that we are making decisions without seeing the whole picture, but you are doing the same, so please stop being hypocritical.

Second... if they ARE assault on venoms....
So What?
Who the hell cares?
What difference will it make?
NONE.  What, you can advance and shoot your venom? oh, that makes it all ok then, right?
Venoms now can have 12 shots wounding on 4's.
the new IMPROVED venoms have 6 shots wounding on 4's
The 6 shots are at ap1 damage 2.
Give me the 12 shots all day long.

And if you ask why I am so realistic (not pessimistic) about the dex... lets see...
Dark Angels- you can field an all termie/bike army!
Sisters- not even a new dex, and here is a new model. In fact, here is ANOTHER new model for a unit they do not even have yet!
Death Guard- Here is an hq that takes 4 traits and can wipe an army off the board by itself. Also, army wide -1 wound! (How are your splinter cannons looking now?)
Marines- Don't even get me started!
Necrons- Here is the silent king... nigh unbeatable in HTH, here is the nightbringer... only 3 wounds per phase please, and he can heal himself.. oh, and everything stands back up on a 5+.

Dark Eldar-  Here is a third (and worst yet) sculpt of a sub par character. Also your shooty units get +1 attack... are we not generous?
GW be like:
Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 40ecokh

Jesus people, wake up and smell what you shovelin...
Unless there is an ARMY-WIDE restructure of how this army plays, we are headed for a very very bad time.
I am talking "Auto pinned if your raider blows up" 3rd edition bad!

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:30

@Kalmah wrote:
i'm not saying you gotta be happy about the changes, but tone down a little bit your skepticism after only 2 datasheets and one weapon profile. Nobody said that those changes were exactly what they were wishing for, we're only saying that those changes are indeed upgrade, but that we'll need a little bit more datas before we can make up our mind.

It's weird how we always need more data to be pessimistic (apparently we're supposed to just discount the last 10 years), but even the tiniest sliver of data is always plenty for massive optimism. Neutral

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:45

@Kalmah wrote:
If you're such in love with the lore, just buy the books and get on with it.... I mean....after 10 years.....come on guys! Either you are masochists or you're stuck in a time loop...Its not as if Warhammer was the only wargame.

Well... We play a faction that eat pain for breakfast. Surely we're a bit masochist.
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Kalmah
Kabalite Warrior
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 17:49

lol skulnbonz, with all the reveals about Slaanesh, your picture just reminded me that Xerxes would fit perfectly with the Hedonites! Surely someone made one somewhere....

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Grimcrimm
Kabalite Warrior
Grimcrimm

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 18:04

Just add ap1 to the current splintercannon and you will find a versatile weapon (even with rapidefire) make it heavy 6 and thats a boon too, its a new gun that looks like a heavy bolter.

Anyone else giggling at wounding gretchin, ratlings and sporemines on a 3+


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I dig the salt mines deeper (Babyhammer 40k) and now introducing "The big book of buffs" Brought to you by Tau space marines "cant keep beat em in melee AND they will shoot you dead"
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ferrusmanus
Hellion
ferrusmanus

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 18:59

I personally think the only hope for the poor kabalites are -1 AP for the basic splinter rifles...or this unit remain out of my list like he does in 8th edition Sad
i hope a better story for my dear kabalites..
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Cerve
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Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 19:16

It's fun....I only see buffs here.
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harlokin
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harlokin

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 19:39

@Cerve wrote:
It's fun....I only see buffs here.

"All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds"

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Barking Agatha
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Barking Agatha

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 19:48

@Kalmah wrote:
Now, if after 10 years you'Re still unhappy with the way Drukhari plays, what prevent you from changing factions? you know? the good ones? and don't tell me it's the lore that keep you spending money on such a poor designed game (as per your terms)....If you're such in love with the lore, just buy the books and get on with it.... I mean....after 10 years.....come on guys! Either you are masochists or you're stuck in a time loop...Its not as if Warhammer was the only wargame.

Personally I play and enjoy it for a while, until it gradually becomes too tedious and I quit in frustration, until a new edition or codex comes along and I play for a while, until it becomes too tedious and I quit in frustration, and so on and on, over and over again. In the meantime I enjoy painting miniatures, playing other games, walking my dog, drinking with my friends, and shopping for underwear.

I play Drukhari because I like them, they're my guys. I could play Space Meringues but... I don't want to.

@sekac wrote:
Would you prefer to pay 8 points for 1 attack, or 8 points for 2 attacks?

We both know what the answer is.

That's being pedantic. This is a bit like Lelith Hesperax having a BS of 2+ . Since she doesn't have any ranged weapons, it might as well be 3+ or 5+ or Bippityfluggit + . It doesn't matter.

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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 20:03

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sekac wrote:
+1A is an upgrade full stop

In the same way as buying a car for someone who can't drive is an upgrade. Technically they're better off but they're really not going to get much use out of it.

Of course, they could always sell the car. Wish we could sell the Attack and buy something that would actually be useful instead!

Again, find out you're paying for it, THEN whine about it.

You're like a kid at a birthday party crying because the free toys you got aren't the ones you wanted.

Your parents would be so embarassed.

Leave the insults out of it please.

If you're happy that a shooting unit got a boost to it's attacks then I'm happy for you. I'd prefer something that is actually going to be useful for the unit.

Would you prefer to pay 8 points for 1 attack, or 8 points for 2 attacks?

We both know what the answer is.

I would prefer to pay 8 points for a shooting unit that actually shoots well. I genuinely don't care at all about +1A on Kabalite Warriors. It is not going to change my unit selection in any way, shape or form and is most likely going to be used to justify their points value, whatever that may end up being, whilst not making any significant contribution to their effectiveness as a unit.

Since you avoided answering the question, that's all the confirmation I need. We would both prefer 2 attacks for 8 points. I'm glad we can find common ground.

Still, you've only opened one of your birthday presents. I'm sorry it wasn't good enough for you. I would still wait to see what else you got before declaring the party a bust.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 20:25

@sekac wrote:

Still, you've only opened one of your birthday presents. I'm sorry it wasn't good enough for you. I would still wait to see what else you got before declaring the party a bust.

People have different versions of what makes a nice present.
You may think a pair of dollar store sunglasses are a great gift.
Others prefer a Tesla.

Right now, we are being handed the sunglasses while the other kids at the party get a 5+ come back to life rule, a "reshoot everything with cherubs" rule, a "cancel all rerolls" rule and the like
But the kicker is all gifts were supposed to not BE the same, but COST the same. All gifts should be proportional.

Go ahead and enjoy and appreciate your sunglasses. me? I am looking over at the kid who got the "Take an all bike army" and wondering if I can tub thump him in the parking lot and take it.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 20:34

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Go ahead and enjoy and appreciate your sunglasses. me? I am looking over at the kid who got the "Take an all bike army" and wondering if I can tub thump him in the parking lot and take it.

Hey, the skinny little kid over there has some nice-looking Heavy Bolters.

Wanna help me jump him?

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sekac
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 20:47

@Skulnbonz wrote:

Go ahead and enjoy and appreciate your sunglasses. me? I am looking over at the kid who got the "Take an all bike army" and wondering if I can tub thump him in the parking lot and take it.

I get it. You're comparing the one present you've opened to another kid's entire haul.

It's a very rational thing to do.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 09 2021, 20:59

Sadly, the only prediction of future events are past events.

When was the last time our army got something really well thought out, designed and thematic?
Third edition? The advent of poison weapons?

In case you are wondering, we are now approaching 9th edition.
Go ahead and put on those sunglasses... something tells me they are rose colored.

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