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 Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 14:08

@harlokin wrote:
@ursvamp wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@ursvamp wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Maybe something with a similar profile to a Baleblast?

My Mandrake-converted archon would love that ^_^

You too? Smile

Of course Wink
(They're* the best!)

((*Mandrakes, that is))

Kheradruakh the Decapitator has so much potential as a cool character and mini...

Whilst I'd prefer not to go down the 'this type of HQ only exists as a special character' route (if we were to get anything, I'd rather it be a generic Mandrake HQ), I certainly don't disagree.

He had a wonderfully creepy design and some fantastic fluff.

Even his mechanics were only really let down by a couple of small (but crucial) flaws. It's a real shame as he could have been a fantastic character even back in 5th. All he really needed was a few little tweaks (let him join units of Mandrakes, let him assault on the turn he arrives).

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ursvamp
Hellion
ursvamp

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 14:11

@harlokin wrote:
Kheradruakh the Decapitator has so much potential as a cool character and mini...

-Very- true.
I really like the forlorn, Gollum-like, artwork of him from the 5ed codex

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ursvamp
Hellion
ursvamp

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 14:27

@GreyArea wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Well you have parasites kiss which is actually kinda cool regaining lost wounds. But it would be nice to have a few more on that list. We surely don’t have to have everything be poison.

In general the artefacts of cruelty need to be a lot better. I still like the deny the witch one. That’s pretty decent for a second archon.

Yeah, the helm of spite is amazing. I'd love to see this or something like it (perhaps a stratagem) be a standard piece of wargear on a haemonculus

Speaking of artefacts that should be normal, availible, wagear (and this is nearing wishlist-territory, I'm sorry), The helm of spite-effect should really be a coven creation. Like, an upgrade for the Cronos, or a variant-unit/build of grotesques, where they've created flesh-construct nulls, or something. Freaky ways to mess with psykers is an old drukhari tradition, after all

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 16:19

(This is kind of wishlisty territory too and I've been wanting the Druhkari to have psychera forever) there are ways the true kin could interactact with the psychic phase and possibly turn our archon into pseudo psychers ... Much like how Baron Sarhonyx uses his dead wife's bones (she was an Aeldari psycher) to effectively use foresight, other archon could use warlock/farseer/spiritseer soulstones (paying 5 to 15 points based on the type of soulstone) that they have taken off of one's they have defeated and force the souls inside to use tortured and or bastardized versions of psychic powers with heamy tech ... or even because they are tortured, a whole new brach of psychic powers that would befit the Dark Eldar play style ... I believe the casket of flensing basically did this and a couple other heamunculus weapons as well
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fisheyes
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 17:25

TY for posting the Drazhar leak!

From what we have seen so far, there HAS been a bump to the damage output for most units. I really like this design philosophy, and hopefully it was carried throughout.

Flat D3 on Disintegration Cannons, here we come!
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ursvamp
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 18:23

@fisheyes wrote:
TY for posting the Drazhar leak!

From what we have seen so far, there HAS been a bump to the damage output for most units. I really like this design philosophy, and hopefully it was carried throughout.

Flat D3 on Disintegration Cannons, here we come!

That seems reasonable.
Terminators (or equivalent well armored elite units) seems to be the perfect targets for the dissie. And with them now being 3 wounds, making the Dissie 3D seems perfectly fine (especially with splintercannons becoming 2D)
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 18:47

Or possibly Dd3+1 for dissies
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 21:11

I doubt that we're going to see a lot of change for dissies. I suspect that they want the choice between DL ravagers and Dissie ravagers to actually be a difficult decision. If they improve the dissies, then the choice will be another no-brainer, like in 8th edition. I'm sure that GW has seen enough 8th ed lists to notice that everyone only takes dissie ravagers.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 22:27

Do you think we will see Vect return?
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 23:05

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Do you think we will see Vect return?

No.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 00:01

I just thought, what with him being resurrected in a young body...if there was ever a right time then perhaps it was now.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 01:24

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I just thought, what with him being resurrected in a young body...if there was ever a right time then perhaps it was now.

Perhaps, but I'm 99% sure if there were more DE models coming, GW would have previewed them already.


To be honest, though, Vect is the one DE model I have absolutely no interest in seeing return. I know that this is probably heresy, and that I'm almost certainly in the minority on this one. However, I just don't like seeing the major players of different races being made into characters. And it's not just Vect - I also dislike seeing stuff like the Silent King for Necrons.

I know some people like them, but for me it makes the 40k universe feel small. Characters like Vect, Abaddon, the Silent King etc. are ones that should be the end of a grand campaign - either fighting them on their home turf or else trying to stop their flagship or invasion force. Fighting these guys should be rare and apocalyptic events - not something that just happens in random skirmishes.

They're also likely to suffer the most as a result of the necessary compromises to get them to a level that's actually playable on the tabletop. So suddenly the leader of the Dark Eldar steps forth and... has near enough the exact same statline as a regular Archon. Even with special rules and such, they're never going to come close to living up to their reputation. Not to mention how statting them in this manner and bringing them out into the open removes almost all mystery and intrigue from such characters.

Similarly, when Vect's Dais has blown up for the 12th time that month or the Silent King has once again been pasted by a Basilisk Shell, you start to wonder why anyone was ever threatened by these characters. Granted, they have means of coming back, but when you're repeatedly scraping the leader of the Dark Eldar off the ground with a spatula, it's hard to stay intimidated by him. You also start to wonder if Vect's master plan includes a whole garage of spare Daises, for when his incompetent buffoonery leads to their destruction by the easiest of means. or whether the Silent King has multiples of his stupid, floating throne, each with its own trapped C'tan.

In short, Vect is the one Dark Eldar character I have little interest in seeing return - doubly so if he comes at the expense of alternative (and especially generic) characters.


However, I realise I'm in the minority on this one and that most people here would like nothing more than to see our leader return once more. So for their sake alone, I hope one day GW can finally be arsed making a model for him.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 04:54

I've never had much interest in special characters. I rocked Sathonyx in 5th, but just for the rules, not because I cared who he was. Had a mandrake prince "counts as". I think Vect is a boring character anyway. He's just a regular archon, just extra.

Archons are ruthless. He's the most ruthless!
Archons are always scheming. His schemes have schemes!

That's the problem with trying to create special characters for a faction as extreme as ours. Double-plus extreme isn't that interesting of a dynamic.

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 05:46

@sekac wrote:
I think Vect is a boring character anyway. He's just a regular archon, just extra.

Archons are ruthless. He's the most ruthless!
Archons are always scheming. His schemes have schemes!

That's the problem with trying to create special characters for a faction as extreme as ours. Double-plus extreme isn't that interesting of a dynamic.

You`ve got a poitn. Yet still GW should at least try to make him. Other factions have at least something.
I also don`t see any reasons not to make a Lady Malys or Sathonyx, or Kheradruakh.

The problem is that DE has a potential, cool design. Tons of ideas can be used here, but no one cares. Let`s just release yet another Space Marine stuff.

_________________
`We faced a Dysjunction... we were betrayed, destroyed, ashamed, hunted... Now look who is been risen from the ashes...`

Succubus Ariel the Vengefull of the Wych cult Blade Denied to her sister, archon Elieae after the conquering Low Commoragh Dark spire.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 07:23

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I just thought, what with him being resurrected in a young body...if there was ever a right time then perhaps it was now.

Perhaps, but I'm 99% sure if there were more DE models coming, GW would have previewed them already.


To be honest, though, Vect is the one DE model I have absolutely no interest in seeing return. I know that this is probably heresy, and that I'm almost certainly in the minority on this one. However, I just don't like seeing the major players of different races being made into characters. And it's not just Vect - I also dislike seeing stuff like the Silent King for Necrons.

I know some people like them, but for me it makes the 40k universe feel small. Characters like Vect, Abaddon, the Silent King etc. are ones that should be the end of a grand campaign - either fighting them on their home turf or else trying to stop their flagship or invasion force. Fighting these guys should be rare and apocalyptic events - not something that just happens in random skirmishes.

They're also likely to suffer the most as a result of the necessary compromises to get them to a level that's actually playable on the tabletop. So suddenly the leader of the Dark Eldar steps forth and... has near enough the exact same statline as a regular Archon. Even with special rules and such, they're never going to come close to living up to their reputation. Not to mention how statting them in this manner and bringing them out into the open removes almost all mystery and intrigue from such characters.

Similarly, when Vect's Dais has blown up for the 12th time that month or the Silent King has once again been pasted by a Basilisk Shell, you start to wonder why anyone was ever threatened by these characters. Granted, they have means of coming back, but when you're repeatedly scraping the leader of the Dark Eldar off the ground with a spatula, it's hard to stay intimidated by him. You also start to wonder if Vect's master plan includes a whole garage of spare Daises, for when his incompetent buffoonery leads to their destruction by the easiest of means. or whether the Silent King has multiples of his stupid, floating throne, each with its own trapped C'tan.

In short, Vect is the one Dark Eldar character I have little interest in seeing return - doubly so if he comes at the expense of alternative (and especially generic) characters.


However, I realise I'm in the minority on this one and that most people here would like nothing more than to see our leader return once more. So for their sake alone, I hope one day GW can finally be arsed making a model for him.

I agree with you that the big players should not be in the game BUT since we are over this now and everyone and their mother has their leader represented on the tabletop i consider the lack of a Vect model the biggest slap in nthe face from GW even more than having better rules...
Being the only faction without a leader that is very much alive and active in the fluff and not dead or missing or on a pilgrimage inside the warp or whatever makes me feel left out more than anything else and i hate it.
Maybe thats just me but if we ever got a vect model i would be much MUCH happier than having an archon with wings or on a jetbike...
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 09:22

Yet still having an archon WITH wings or jetbike is appreciated Very Happy

No, really. I just can`t understand why our leaders have such small amount of wargear available to them. It`s just ridiculous.

_________________
`We faced a Dysjunction... we were betrayed, destroyed, ashamed, hunted... Now look who is been risen from the ashes...`

Succubus Ariel the Vengefull of the Wych cult Blade Denied to her sister, archon Elieae after the conquering Low Commoragh Dark spire.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 09:53

I don't think that an Archon in a Jetbike or with wings fits the fluff. They wouldn't be taken seriously: jetbikes are not a mount for a powerful mobster, and wings make you a bigger target.

Instead, a good mount like Vect's Dais or a pleasure boat makes more sense. A lone Archon in its personal Venom is plausible, like a command vehicle, but more powerful Archons would keep their retinue and also use some extra space and luxury around. And luxuries would include lots of deadly equipment, maybe some expensive poisons, and even drugs depending on the Archon.

If you want to have a leader in a bike or individual flying device, then you should ask for a Succubus, or a gang boss, not an Archon.
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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 10:07

@Eldur wrote:
I don't think that an Archon in a Jetbike or with wings fits the fluff. They wouldn't be taken seriously: jetbikes are not a mount for a powerful mobster, and wings make you a bigger target.

Instead, a good mount like Vect's Dais or a pleasure boat makes more sense. A lone Archon in its personal Venom is plausible, like a command vehicle, but more powerful Archons would keep their retinue and also use some extra space and luxury around. And luxuries would include lots of deadly equipment, maybe some expensive poisons, and even drugs depending on the Archon.

If you want to have a leader in a bike or individual flying device, then you should ask for a Succubus, or a gang boss, not an Archon.

I can sort of see the point for the jetbike, but wings? Archons get whatever random modifications they want, to intimidate, look cool, distinguish themselves or for use. Malixian the Mad had a cloak of eyes, which was frak cool, but served no practical service.

Archons are the pinnacle of DE debauchery, arrogance, and wealth. Why wouldn't they have some wings if they wanted them?

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velaresh
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 10:10

I see only a change for the dissie in the number of shots ,but no damage or S for the weapon.

Maybe S5 AP 3 Damage 2 Heavy 5 or S5-6 Ap 3 Blast 2d3.

that allows playing a hybrid ravager of 2 dark lances one dissie or 2 dissies 2 dark lances.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 10:23

Totally agree that major characters should be left in the narrative. Very good point.

We do have 3 special characters I suppose. I guess what we are missing is a way to mix them up a bit which could be done with better wargear.

The court of the archon needs a massive improvement as well. I want to see some of the court actually provide buffs. The only useful ones are snake heads and I hate those models.
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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 10:51

@Sarcron wrote:
@Eldur wrote:
I don't think that an Archon in a Jetbike or with wings fits the fluff. They wouldn't be taken seriously: jetbikes are not a mount for a powerful mobster, and wings make you a bigger target.

Instead, a good mount like Vect's Dais or a pleasure boat makes more sense. A lone Archon in its personal Venom is plausible, like a command vehicle, but more powerful Archons would keep their retinue and also use some extra space and luxury around. And luxuries would include lots of deadly equipment, maybe some expensive poisons, and even drugs depending on the Archon.

If you want to have a leader in a bike or individual flying device, then you should ask for a Succubus, or a gang boss, not an Archon.

I can sort of see the point for the jetbike, but wings? Archons get whatever random modifications they want, to intimidate, look cool, distinguish themselves or for use. Malixian the Mad had a cloak of eyes, which was frak cool, but served no practical service.

Archons are the pinnacle of DE debauchery, arrogance, and wealth. Why wouldn't they have some wings if they wanted them?

I can see a thematic reason not to. They would be unlikely to have functional wings as that places them very close to scourges, which are looked down upon. Excluded from the courts. Hired only as mercs. They are not Trueborn. They are not even cloned. They are other. Debased.

That said...

Our HQs lack mobility, especially for a mobile race.

Archon on a jetbike is... a little odd, but a jetbike HQ is certainly called for.

I can also see a way to give an Archon wargear (including wings) that would... turn them into a cut price merc HQ?

Ok, so this is probably the wrong thread for this, but this is what I would do:

Keep the Archon as the Kabal HQ, the Succi as the Cult HQ and the Haem as the Coven HQ.

The Archon should have the following trait options:


  • Default set - mostly helps kabal forces.
  • Mercenary Lord - foregoes some Kabal specific buffs for allowing the mercs to benefit from obsessions, and access to the following, mutually exclusive wargear options:

    • Scourge wings and shard carbine - gives same deepstrike abilities and movement as Scourge and a shard carbine - A squad of 5 scourge can also be taken as the court.
    • Incubi Klavies and armour - basically your archon loses all shooting ability in favour of incubi armour and weapons, but keeps his own stat line otherwise. Also replaces shadowfield - a squad of 5 incubi can be taken as the court.
    • Something similar for mandrakes.




You can do the same for cult, with the Succi able to take a bike or a board, and that results in buffs for bikes and boards.

Haem is harder to do, but maybe doesnt need it?

This does replace the need for a mandrake HQ as I so dearly want, but mandrakes simply arnt big enough to have a whole sub-faction (yet).

BUT, you could still have special HQs that do some really good stuff.

Baron could make Hellions into troop options for Cult.

Decapitator could do the same for Mandrakes for Kabal.

Im sure there is a jetbike associated special character somewhere.
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GreyArea
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 10:53

I suspect not much will change w dissi's but you never know.

I'd absolutely love some better HQ customisation/wargear options but, given the trend to no rules without a model combined with no new models, I'm quite doubtful it'll happen anytime soon.

I just wish GW would relax this "no model, no rules" thing for factions they don't give many new models to. I'd be more than happy to convert stuff! Our range is so pretty and kits are super compatible so its a joy to do.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 11:07

I’d be fine if they just said the shadow field was also an aura save meaning it also protected the boat he/she was riding in. Make the shadow field 4++. That way you can actually make a Vect model of your own...Archon riding in his boat protected by archon technology. Have his court on board with him. That would be cool.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 11:32

Regarding mobility options, I have to disagree with the idea that an Archon shouldn't get wings or a jetbike.

In terms of the latter, we know that this has happened. At least one Reaver went on to become an Archon. Are they really going to just abandon their Jetbike after ascending? Why?

With wings, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be functional. Okay, it makes the Archon closer, visually, to a scourge. If anyone suggests that this gives him a low status, have them slowly tortured to death and the pieces spread around on different Scourge spires.

Not to mention the possibility of an actual Scourge rising to the level of Archon. It would be unusual, sure, but I'm certain stranger things have happened within the Dark City.

What's more, there's a quote from the scourges in DoW that (to me at least) seems as Archon-y as it gets:

"The earth does not deserve to touch my feet."

Each to their own, but I think this line of thinking is *exactly* the way a prideful Archon would view the world, and why they might well have wings grafted to them just so they never need to contaminate their feet with unworthy soil. Twisted Evil


@Dark Elf Dave wrote:

We do have 3 special characters I suppose. I guess what we are missing is a way to mix them up a bit which could be done with better wargear.

I think the problem is that our generic characters, in addition to lacking options, are all basically fulfilling the same role.

A Chaos Sorcerer plays differently from a Chaos Lord, a Warboss plays differently from a Big Mek, a SM Captain plays differently from a Librarian, a Tau Commander plays differently from an Ethereal, a Company Commander plays differently from a Commissar or Primaris Psyker etc.

But with Dark Eldar, all our characters are just doing the same thing. The Archon is a mediocre beatstick with a little support ability. The Haemonculus is a medicore beatstick with a bit of support ability. The Succubus is a mediocre beatstick with a little support ability.

As it stands, the main difference between them is one created through arbitrary fiat. If you removed the restrictions on which HQ could buff and be taken with which subfaction, I suspect at least one of them (probably the Succubus) would basically vanish from the table.

And while the Archon's aura is different from that of the Haemonculus, neither of them bring any actual utility. The Archon just makes units ever so slightly better at hitting things. The Haemonculus makes already-durable units a little bit tougher. The only real utility they can bring comes in the form of artefacts, like the Helm of Spite and Vexator Mask.

In addition to needing more options, I think we really need for our HQs to become more focussed in their respective roles. e.g.:
- The succubus needs to be our melee champion, second only to Drazhar. She should be rocking 6 attacks with her weapon having Blood Glaive stats at the bare minimum. Also, drop her aura and give her extra benefits when duelling characters.
- The Archon should be a command character, possibly also leaning more towards mid-range shooting than melee. But his real utility should be in providing more global buffs - whether in the form of command points or with some other support ability.
- The Haemonculus should be a 'wildcard', being able to bring various support or debuff abilities in the form of different pieces of arcane wargear. He should also have some general utility with Coven, perhaps being able to heal them and/or bring back dead models.


@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I’d be fine if they just said the shadow field was also an aura save meaning it also protected the boat he/she was riding in. Make the shadow field 4++. That way you can actually make a Vect model of your own...Archon riding in his boat protected by archon technology. Have his court on board with him. That would be cool.

I like that idea. Really, it would be cool if we had a few options to choose from.

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hekatrixxy
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hekatrixxy

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Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 24 2021, 11:46

4++ on a Tantalus would be nice!

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 17 I_icon_minitime

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