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 Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

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Red Corsair
Kabalite Warrior
Red Corsair

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 18:39

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am not "crying myself to sleep" over this...
Whatever I am given to work with I will somehow make it work.
But honestly, SO FAR I feel like Oliver begging GW "Please sirs, may I have some more" while I hold a bowl of maggoty gruel, While GW scowls at me for my unmitigated gall, while they turn around and treat marines, death guard and crons like Dudley on his birthday.

Just once... one freaking time, I want other factions to look at us and go "Damn! they got a great dex!"

We haven't even started getting the legit preview yet. If the book sucks as bad as the 7th edition codex I'll charge the front gates right beside you. But we should at least get 10% of the picture before worrying.

BTW I totally get folks being a bit anxious as well. Waiting around for a new book for any army you play tends to do that.

I think the AP boost and profile attack on wyches is pretty big news. You still have to factor unknowns like obsessions, drugs and PFP. Even just applying the current rules a 10 strong unit of wyches from cursed blade with the strength or attack boost on top and 3 arena weapons will seriously hurt a unit. Especially on turn 3 near a succubus. (turn 2 with the strat)

I am sure things will change from where they are now, but it just gives an idea of how much of a difference some AP and better arena gear makes after stacking in synergy from the other elements in the book.

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ursvamp
Hellion
ursvamp

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 18:43

@TheBaconPope wrote:
I would caution on being too hyped on the 4+ save for Kabalites. I fear we may be making the same mistake as the Death Guard, where a unit's stats are released before their abilities. People get hyped on the improved stats, assume the abilities remain the same, then are outraged when they are revealed to have changed as they mourn a unit that didn't actually exist.

We don't know if PfP is still going to grant an army wide Feel No Pain. Given 9th edition codex's trend to reduce army wide FnP, I'm actually finding it unlikely that we'll keep our 6+++

Well, frankly, the 6+++ from PfP is basically the only special rule that Kabalites really gain any benefit from currently. So a change that results in the loss of it comes with the potential of it being replaced with something as good, or even better, for them.

Also
@TheBaconPope wrote:
Given 9th edition codex's trend to reduce army wide FnP, I'm actually finding it unlikely that we'll keep our 6+++

I agree with you. But I won't break out the champagne until we have confirmation Smile

@Red Corsair wrote:
BTW I totally get folks being a bit anxious as well. Waiting around for a new book for any army you play tends to do that.

<3


@Barking Agatha wrote:
David Hume Smile

In other words, some classic... Humility?
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 19:30

@ursvamp wrote:

@Barking Agatha wrote:
David Hume Smile

In other words, some classic... Humility?

I was going for empiricism, but sure. Smile

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 19:37

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@ursvamp wrote:

@Barking Agatha wrote:
David Hume Smile

In other words, some classic... Humility?

I was going for empiricism, but sure. Smile

But in terms of what you stated...was it said as being in the know?
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 19:39

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
@Barking Agatha wrote:
@ursvamp wrote:

@Barking Agatha wrote:
David Hume Smile

In other words, some classic... Humility?

I was going for empiricism, but sure. Smile

But in terms of what you stated...was it said as being in the know?

No, of course not, don't be silly Smile

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 19:58

Wow, there sure is a lot of salt in here. Codex MUST be close XD

I assume we are all looking at the Wych and Kabalite box leak? Honestly, I am a little put out by blasters/blast pistols not getting D:3+D3.

But overall, I like the design theory of +1A on the Wyches. Lets crank the offensive abilities, and to heck with defensives.

Really really really want to see what happens to the Coven units. I am still expecting some major changes with them (hopefully for the better)

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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:11

I would not expect changes for the better in terms of survivability for Covens, given how cheap Wracks are at the moment. But the increased unit size can be nice. We'll see.

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:13

I expect Coven units to transition to our "psykers, but not" role in the new codex. Similar to the Necron C'tan/technomancer doing Mortal Wounds on stuff.

Thats what my gut tells me. Could be WAY off though. Hopefully we will know soon!

Glad that this discussion is still being productive. Even the people arguing have not devolved into name-calling and comparisons to historical dictators Razz
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:16

@fisheyes wrote:
I expect Coven units to transition to our "psykers, but not" role in the new codex. Similar to the Necron C'tan/technomancer doing Mortal Wounds on stuff.

I assume you mean Haemonculi (and maybe Cronos)?

It would be a little odd if our psyker-equivalents were Wracks and Grotesques. Razz

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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:18

@fisheyes wrote:
I expect Coven units to transition to our "psykers, but not" role in the new codex. Similar to the Necron C'tan/technomancer doing Mortal Wounds on stuff.

I mean, DE technology is described as so advanced that it seems like magic to other races, so it would be kinda fitting.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:27

@red_head wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
I expect Coven units to transition to our "psykers, but not" role in the new codex. Similar to the Necron C'tan/technomancer doing Mortal Wounds on stuff.

I mean, DE technology is describes as so advanced that it seems like magic to other races, so it would be kinda fitting.

In fairness, though, there's surely no reason why this would be confined to Haemonculi?

It's not like with psykers, where you need an innate talent to use it.

I could maybe see Succubi not having that sort of thing, if only because they tend to wield minimal equipment at the best of times.

But Archons are meant to be going into battle wielding the best and rarest technology available. So even if they didn't invent it, you'd think they'd be using it regardless.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:35

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@red_head wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
I expect Coven units to transition to our "psykers, but not" role in the new codex. Similar to the Necron C'tan/technomancer doing Mortal Wounds on stuff.

I mean, DE technology is describes as so advanced that it seems like magic to other races, so it would be kinda fitting.

In fairness, though, there's surely no reason why this would be confined to Haemonculi?

It's not like with psykers, where you need an innate talent to use it.

I could maybe see Succubi not having that sort of thing, if only because they tend to wield minimal equipment at the best of times.

The Haemonculi are just heads and tails beyond anything else in 40k. They have vaults full of nightmarish devices and they terrify even the likes of Fabius Bile that he treats them like an unavoidable natural catastrophy.

And they aren't exactly depicted as giving out their stuff for free. Even more "mundane" favors such as regrowing your dead body as insurance likely costs you part of your soul. Maybe some things just aren't worth it.

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
But Archons are meant to be going into battle wielding the best and rarest technology available. So even if they didn't invent it, you'd think they'd be using it regardless.

Are you implying that a Shadowfield and Huskblade isn't the best and rarest technology on the tabletop? Razz
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:40

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

The Haemonculi are just heads and tails beyond anything else in 40k. They have vaults full of nightmarish devices and they terrify even the likes of Fabius Bile that he treats them like an unavoidable natural catastrophy.

Looks at Haemonculi wargear.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that.

Unless you seriously want to defend the Mindphase Gauntlet as being the pinnacle of destructive technology. Wink


@The Strange Dark One wrote:

And they aren't exactly depicted as giving out their stuff for free. Even more "mundane" favors such as regrowing your dead body as insurance likely costs you part of your soul. Maybe some things just aren't worth it.

That's true. I could understand some wargear being Haemonculus-exclusive. I just meant it would be a bit odd if it was all Haemonculus-exclusive.


@The Strange Dark One wrote:

Are you implying that a Shadowfield and Huskblade isn't the best and rarest technology on the tabletop? Razz

lol!

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:44

@The Strange Dark One wrote:


Are you implying that a Shadowfield and Huskblade isn't the best and rarest technology on the tabletop? Razz
Shadowfield should be a 2++ invul, not rerollable. If failed, it goes to a 3++. then a 4++ etc.

Huskblade should ignore invul saves, as having your soul ripped from your body is not helped by a stormshield.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 20:46

Regarding the Shadowfield, I'd rather just have it at a 4++ with -1 to hit.

Hell, I'd take a 5++ with a -1 to hit over the current rules.


Gimmicks have their place but I really don't want one as the only available save option for my mainstay HQ.

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Koldan
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 21:03

[quote="Skulnbonz"]
@The Strange Dark One wrote:

Huskblade should ignore invul saves, as having your soul ripped from your body is not helped by a stormshield.
Huskblades don't drain souls, they evaporate all the water. Should be more about the to wound roll and by the way now you know how little thousand sons are made. Wink
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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 21:17

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:

The Haemonculi are just heads and tails beyond anything else in 40k. They have vaults full of nightmarish devices and they terrify even the likes of Fabius Bile that he treats them like an unavoidable natural catastrophy.

Looks at Haemonculi wargear.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that.

Unless you seriously want to defend the Mindphase Gauntlet as being the pinnacle of destructive technology.  Wink

The statement was about Haemonculi in the lore, not on the tabletop. And there are plenty descriptions there.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 21:49

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:

The Haemonculi are just heads and tails beyond anything else in 40k. They have vaults full of nightmarish devices and they terrify even the likes of Fabius Bile that he treats them like an unavoidable natural catastrophy.

Looks at Haemonculi wargear.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that.

Unless you seriously want to defend the Mindphase Gauntlet as being the pinnacle of destructive technology.  Wink

I was referring to the DE books and how the "vaults full of devices" were depicted. There was a passage where a low-level Haemonculus from the Coven of the Black Descent was tasked to kill the renegade Haemonculus Bellathonis. He was given access to one of their vaults where he could choose any one item that helps him with this.

The Haemonculus in question wondered about the apparatuses and their power with awe. This passage mentioned items such as the Orbs of Despair, Shattershards, but also devices not mentioned anywhere else.

And there's really not much competition in terms of science in 40k. Afaik, all the factions reuse ancient technology that is slowly degrading (apart from the Tau and their modern military manga mechs). But for the Haemonculi, they never got the memo and have continued doing their stuff ever since.

Also, let's not forget that even a renegade Inquisitor thought it was a good idea to ask the Haemonculi for help to fix the golden throne.

I was told about the part of Fabius Bile in-person. His former relationship with the Coven of 13 Scars is apparently the main plot of "Fabius Bile - Manflayer".

Mindphase Gauntlets are really only tools for low-level Wracks. Why do you think a self-respecting Haemonculus refuses to wear it? Razz
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 21:53

Hex rifles really need an update to match their fluff, as they are supposed to be extremely. deadly.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 22:06

Trouble is they always write some amazing descriptions of the power of certain weapons or individuals. It’s very difficult to transfer that into balanced rules mind. You can’t have every single item as wargear can you.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22 2021, 22:15

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

I was referring to the DE books and how the "vaults full of devices" were depicted.

Yeah, I know.

I was just making a point about how the 'advanced nightmarish technology' usually ends up on the tabletop. Razz


@The Strange Dark One wrote:
There was a passage where a low-level Haemonculus from the Coven of the Black Descent was tasked to kill the renegade Haemonculus Bellathonis. He was given access to one of their vaults where he could choose any one item that helps him with this.

The Haemonculus in question wondered about the apparatuses and their power with awe. This passage mentioned items such as the Orbs of Despair, Shattershards, but also devices not mentioned anywhere else.

And there's really not much competition in terms of science in 40k. Afaik, all the factions reuse ancient technology that is slowly degrading (apart from the Tau and their modern military manga mechs). But for the Haemonculi, they never got the memo and have continued doing their stuff ever since.

Also, let's not forget that even a renegade Inquisitor thought it was a good idea to ask the Haemonculi for help to fix the golden throne.

I was told about the part of Fabius Bile in-person. His former relationship with the Coven of 13 Scars is apparently the main plot of "Fabius Bile - Manflayer".

Oh sure, I'm not disputing that Haemonculi are absolute masters of science in the lore.

I just wish their wargear would bring that across.


@The Strange Dark One wrote:
Mindphase Gauntlets are really only tools for low-level Wracks. Why do you think a self-respecting Haemonculus refuses to wear it? Razz

Cool. Want to point me to some haemonculus equipment that's actually worth a damn?

I'd ask about the Orbs of Despair or Shattershard, but they've long since ceased to even exist.

(And I loved the Shattershad in 5th.)

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Oaka
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 02:47

After seeing that Kabalites were getting the +1A I'm just happy that Wyches didn't get BS2+.

I think the stat changes are great, one extra attack for the squad leader and AP-1 is enough.  Wyches needed changes to their other rules to be better, so I'll wait for those.

1) 4++ save if in engagement range
2) Venoms up to 6 model occupancy
3) Units can take the same combat drugs
4) Stratagem for a 3D6 charge roll

If you give me 2 of those 4, I'm happy.

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inevitable_faith
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 03:28

@Oaka wrote:
After seeing that Kabalites were getting the +1A I'm just happy that Wyches didn't get BS2+.

I think the stat changes are great, one extra attack for the squad leader and AP-1 is enough.  Wyches needed changes to their other rules to be better, so I'll wait for those.

1) 4++ save if in engagement range
2) Venoms up to 6 model occupancy
3) Units can take the same combat drugs
4) Stratagem for a 3D6 charge roll

If you give me 2 of those 4, I'm happy.

1) Oh yes! I've been thinking that this was a great idea for years. So simple to write and fits cleanly with the game rules without having to wreck anything else. Also helps Wyches deal with 9ed vehicles that can now shoot while in CC.

2) Add in, Raider transport up to 11 as well please. And this isn't just a needed addition for our wyches but for our dex as a whole. So frustrating wanting to put an archon in a raider with warriors but losing on a special and heavy cause i'm 9 man unit. Same goes for wyches losing 2 wych weapons from going to 9 unit to fit a succubus.

3) I like this, our current drug rationing system is just absolutely stupid and needs to burn via exterminatus.

4) I could take or leave this, it'd be strong but doesn't scale well in larger battles due to stratagem restrictions. It's also just kind of boring compared to the weird and fun strats I'd prefer to see. Maybe change it so our wyches can charge out of our raiders and venoms after they move instead. That would make my day.

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Oaka
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 04:17

@inevitable_faith wrote:

4) I could take or leave this, it'd be strong but doesn't scale well in larger battles due to stratagem restrictions. It's also just kind of boring compared to the weird and fun strats I'd prefer to see. Maybe change it so our wyches can charge out of our raiders and venoms after they move instead. That would make my day.

It would make 20-model units coming out of a webway portal so very dangerous. Charging out of transports would be fine as well, but I imagine that would also be limited to a stratagem so an entire army can't first turn assault.

Oh, and some extra movement on those venoms and raiders, please. We have to be faster than Primaris skimmers, for crying out loud.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex - Page 15 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 23 2021, 05:18

I'd also accept our units being able to attack out of a transport that is locked in combat, like each model currently embarked gets to attack any enemy unit within engagement range ... even if it's just half the attacks that would still be awesome

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