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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:16

This just showed up on Facebook. All our prayers have been answered! Splinter Cannons have gone from Rapid Fire 3 to Heavy 3, which is exactly what you want on a fast moving force. Poison appears to have stayed as utterly useless as it always has been but now Kabalite Warriors have an extra attack!!!! Crying or Very sad

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:24

Yeah ok you forgot kabalites also got 4+ save now and splinter cannons are damage 2 -1ap
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:27

@DevilDoll wrote:
Yeah ok you forgot kabalites also got 4+ save now and splinter cannons are damage 2 -1ap

I did miss the 4+ save but do GW seriously think that Kabalites are close combat troops? Going by the custom obsessions in PA they apparently do!

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:31

well at least the Splinter Canon now have an AP-1 and damage 2, really good, but the switch from rapid fire to heavy sucks in my opinion Sad but i admit that it makes senses.
The Kabalite with an extra attack......why???? The Sybarite already had 2 attack and he's the only one with a close quarter weapon in this unit...funny when you read the article, its as if it was exactly what we were waiting for....
Note that they received a better save at 4+ instead of 5+

Overall, more gain than loss, but nothing changed drastically.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:36

I'm not sure it really is more gain than loss, unless all splinter weapons get the same treatment with the AP and damage. Cannons are probably worse now than they were before unless they have some ability to negate the penalty for moving.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:38

I agree with count, it is not the best of starts..
Lets see
Let the pessimism wars begin ^_^
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:39

Begun, the moan wars have.

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tibersky
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:43

The extra attack might be indicative of a +1 attack across all troops. So wyches a wracks, though incubi didn't get it in their preview.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 12:56

Why I was right... a sad acknowledgement from Skulnbobnz.

I warned everyone that the Drukhari codex would be a mish-mash of slapped together, poorly thought out rules and units.
And the preview we just saw? Of the warriors?
Why oh why did I have to be right.

So I will get down to it here, and let everyone know what a steaming pile of horse s**t we are being force-fed.

We were told that the Dark Eldar would be a much more melee centric force. "More deadly in combat" I believe we were told. So they gave the Incubi an extra damage (which I pointed out was actually a downgrade compared to the buffs other armies got) and now...
Now warriors get 2 attacks!

2!!!!!

Thats right, watch those primaris marines shake with fear at our ap-0 strength 3 warriors swooping in to flay them alive. Necron warriors, orks and genestealers should just forfeit when they see us across the table.

So... to make us more "melee centric" they slapped an extra attack on a WARRIOR.  Does this sound well thought out and planned to you, or is this just a stupid, unnecessary and useless tweak to a SHOOTING unit? Hell, give them +1 BS and we would all be cheering. Give us +1 Attack and we all look at you with contempt, and fear of what is coming next....
(To be fair, the 4+ save was unexpected, and appreciated. But it is far overshadowed by the stupid +1 Attack.)

So that brings us to the splinter cannon.
Strength 3 (why is there a str?)
Ap-1 ! (YES!!)
Damage 2! (Oh God Yes!!! Finally!)
HEAVY 3!
(crickets)
Are you freaking kidding me?
HEAVY 3!!!



So right now, my venom has 10 shots at 12" or less range. One splinter cannon. One twin rifle.
These shots hit on 3's, with rerolls of 1's from Flayed Skull.
With me so far?
NOW.... I have the shots hitting on 3's, with rerolls only for the small gun.
BUT, the gun that has three measley shots and dosent reroll now has ap-1, and damage 2.

The sheer stupidity of this change is biblical. Seriously. Our quintessential weapon, two of which on a venom spat out 12 shots at 18" hitting on 3's now drool out 6 shots.
AND THEY CALL THIS AN UPGRADE!

warriors and scourges will all be hitting on 4's with this stupid, useless thing.  They are trying to make it a Dark Eldar heavy bolter, and they failed miserably.
Jesus, I just realized the Talos is hitting on 5's with it!

*edit- corrected a mistake
This is the perfect example of giving someone garbage and expecting them to thank you for it.

I am going to open future previews the same way I set a rat trap, hoping not to get smacked but expecting to any second.

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Last edited by Skulnbonz on Mon Feb 08 2021, 13:07; edited 1 time in total

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 13:03

One point that I hadn't picked up on, due to very limited 9e experience, is that Heavy weapons apparently only have -1 to hit for Infantry. So the change to splinter cannons is not as bad as I thought.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 13:05

Ah, you are correct. so instead of 100% hating this, I 80% hate it.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 13:48

So, just to recap the changes so far;

Kabalites have an improved save
Kabalites have more attacks in close combat
Poison weapons now have a better chance of wounding weak opponents
Splinter Cannons are now stronger versus MEQ (at the expense of being worse versus single wound models)

Sounds fine to me, tbh. Very excited to see what other changes we get.

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 14:11

Let me start by saying that I haven't done the math yet... But i think the splinter cannon change is likely positive on our venoms. The -1AP coupled with the 2 damage likely means that they will actually wound more with double splinter cannons than they did in the past. (but I'll have to do the math to check that). My gut is that it should have been heavy 4, but we'll see.

Everyone is upset that the extra attack is on the kabalite warrior, but as some have pointed out they said this is a race change, so our melee units should all get this too. (but we must wait and see).

The 4+ armour save is a big improvement and I too missed it on my read! CLEARLY not the game changing like the things we've seen on marines etc. but what made us good was never our base stats, it's our strategems and special rules etc.

So my overall thoughts are that i'm a bit underwhelmed at this being the first hint. (would have thought they would lead with something big). I'm not taking this as an indicator that everything is bad, but it similarly is not particularly inspiring so far.

So i'll sit here and hold my breath in anxious anticipation (someone pick me up off the floor if I pass out from lack of oxygen please) Laughing

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 14:16

@Burnage wrote:
Kabalites have an improved save

I like this

@Burnage wrote:
Kabalites have more attacks in close combat

Who on earth has been wanting that though? If your Kabalites are in close combat the chances are something has already gone horribly wrong!

@Burnage wrote:
Poison weapons now have a better chance of wounding weak opponents

Do they? At S3 they still wound hordes on a 4+ unless you're shooting something T2 or lower and I'm not sure there's that many models out there with T2.

@Burnage wrote:
Splinter Cannons are now stronger versus MEQ (at the expense of being worse versus single wound models)

A very minor improvement. Would it have killed them to keep Rapid Fire and actually make them good rather than okay? A twin cannon Venom will kill 1 marine per turn, which is hardly game breaking!

@Burnage wrote:
Sounds fine to me, tbh. Very excited to see what other changes we get.

Hope they're better than these ones!

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 14:39

@Silverglade wrote:
 (would have thought they would lead with something big)  Laughing

This...
This right there is what worries me the most
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 14:49

Just re-reading the GW article:

"Kabalites have always looked to close with their prey, and now they’re even more capable of swift and bloody close combat than before."

Really? Have your Kabalites always wanted to close with your prey so their awesome 1 S3, AP0 attack can bounce off their armour and you can then die swiftly and bloodily?

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 15:00

Hmm ... the splinter cannon change confuses me a little bit, I like the ap-1 and the 2 damage ... strength on a poison weapon just baffles me, especially a strength low enough that the poison profile will always be used, except on the rare target with only 2 toughness, but now it seems the best platforms for it are venom and talos both won't suffer the penalty for heavy weapons (at least I don't think monsterous creatures suffer the -1 for moving and shooting heavy weapons still) ... I don't mind the extra melee attack, this might mean our wyches have gotten significantly better at fighting now too, was expecting it actually with the heavy focus on melee in the obsessions, the move to +4 as a save is fantastic, now there is a slight chance my kabalites will live through a hail of bolter fire ... now to see what other changes are coming

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 15:12

Why is everyone assuming that wyches and wracks will get +1 attack as well?
Did I miss something?

In fact, I would be willing to be that they do NOT get it. Why? Because if they previewed +1 attack on wyches, everyone would love it.

Going by the formula they revealed today, Wyches will lose their pistols, but will be able to have access to splinter rifles.
Because HTH units need shooting and shooting units need HTH, right?

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 15:16

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
Kabalites have an improved save

I like this

@Burnage wrote:
Kabalites have more attacks in close combat

Who on earth has been wanting that though? If your Kabalites are in close combat the chances are something has already gone horribly wrong!

@Burnage wrote:
Poison weapons now have a better chance of wounding weak opponents

Do they? At S3 they still wound hordes on a 4+ unless you're shooting something T2 or lower and I'm not sure there's that many models out there with T2.

@Burnage wrote:
Splinter Cannons are now stronger versus MEQ (at the expense of being worse versus single wound models)

A very minor improvement. Would it have killed them to keep Rapid Fire and actually make them good rather than okay? A twin cannon Venom will kill 1 marine per turn, which is hardly game breaking!

@Burnage wrote:
Sounds fine to me, tbh. Very excited to see what other changes we get.

Hope they're better than these ones!

Haaa, I've actually been clamouring for the basic elf statline to get increased attacks as compensation for the loss of initiative. We'll have to wait and see if other units get it as well but I very much am that individual who's been wanting Kabalites to go to A2.

Just in response to your other points: I've fought enough obnoxious T2 stuff (e.g., Nurglings, Gretchin) where +1 to wound to clear them off a point is a very welcome change. The change in damage versus MEQ over a current Cannon in Rapid Fire is also a 50% boost, which is pretty noticeable! None of these are world changing - as you note, two new Cannons will still only expect to kill one Marine - but they are all buffs and we'll have to see how any other changes in the Codex synergise with them.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 15:20

rereading it... they say:
As well as the warriors themselves, the guns they carry are also seeing a few changes. Chief among them is the fearsome splinter cannon, which now deals 2 Damage, making it a powerful deterrent to any would-be defenders of Humanity.**

and the footer:
** It looks like the splinters are heavier now, which we’re sure must be related.


Related?
This actually gives me a little hope, as they know switching the cannon to heavy would seem stupid.

grasping at straws here, but hope, as they say, springs eternal.

*** EDIT

Nevermind. I think they are saying the splinters are heavier, causing ap-1 and 2 damage.

Damn it.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 15:33

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Nevermind. I think they are saying the splinters are heavier, causing ap-1 and 2 damage.

Damn it.

Yeah, not holding my breath for the same changes to other splinter weapons.

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 16:25

Wow! Our advanced Splinter Cannons have been upgraded to... Heavy Bolters.

Except worse against vehicles.

And also worse against any non-vehicles with T4 or less.


Oh, and apparently GW still harbour the delusion that Warriors are combat troops. I look forward to them becoming 18ppm to reflect their literal doubling of combat power!


Also also, Kabalites are being made into melee units at the same time that one of their main weapons has been changed from Rapid Fire to Heavy. Truly this book is a masterpiece of thoughtful design, and definitely not a complete pile of tosh, rushed out by people who wouldn't care less about Dark Eldar and were just eager to get it over and done with so that they could go back to Marines.

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 16:35

Talos and venoms firing Splinter cannons in combat will now be -1 to hit which means Talos hitting on 5s.

They said Dark Eldar will be a fast, deadly, hard-hitting army. So I'm assuming the splinter cannons will get the same ability as the Dark lances for Vehicles (with the addition of the "MONSTER" keyword):

"Change this weapon’s Type from Heavy to Assault if it is equipped on a VEHICLE."

As that will be great and obviously GW are just messing with us as we can be a salty bunch and are keeping all the cool special rules till last .....that is classic GW ...they would never leave us out of getting cool stuff........... Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 16:45

Oh, something I saw mentioned elsewhere, the change also makes the Splinter Cannon drastically worse against Death Guard.

I'm doubtful that this is a coincidence.

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PostSubject: Re: Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex   Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 08 2021, 17:58

To be fair, the only reason I can think of for Kabalites to get an extra attack, is if it's an army-wide +1A, and Kabalites are simply not an exception.
Since 9th came out, I've basically been neglecting my entire army. It has been in a box, waiting for our 9th edition codex to make it worth opening the box again. I really hope the codex succeeds in that, or I'll just lose motivation to put energy in this game at all. So far, I'm not getting the feeling that it will.

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