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 Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 12 2021, 13:49

Per the update- unless there is a points cost associated with it, all upgrades are free.

So now, our venoms cost BASE: 65 points.
It comes equipped with a Splinter cannon, which has a points cost associated with it of 10 points.

So I assume our venoms, armed with a single splinter cannon and twin splinter rifle cost 75 points.

Other people argued that it cost 65 points, as the first splinter cannon is included in the base price. To them I say why does the Archon entry have a 5 point huskblade then? It comes as standard and you can not take 2 of them.

So... Venoms are 75 points at the most basic configuration, correct?

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 12 2021, 14:48

I think the intention is for the basic loadout of Venoms to cost 75 points, yes.

I originally thought that they were 65, with the +splinter cannon points being solely for the optional cannon. But the first page of the MFM FAQ makes it reasonably clear that this isn't the case - if a model has wargear, and there's a points value for that wargear, you pay for it.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 12 2021, 17:35

I was listening to something this morning saying that the Heavy Bolter on the Chimera came baked in.

I personally dont understand this either...
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 12 2021, 19:08

75.

It's simple: you have to read the "introduction to the Munitorum ecc", first page of that pdf.
When the option is listed, you have to pay it.
When none, it's free.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 13 2021, 00:32

I don't know what it is about the way GW phrase rules, but it feels like I need to read them about 6 times before I can work out what the hell they're supposed to be saying.

"You must then add points for each weapon, or item of wargear, that is included in that unit if it is listed in that unit’s entry"

I had to read this sentence alone about 3 times before I realised that they were talking about unit entries specifically in the Munitoum Field Manual. As opposed to, you know, the actual unit entries in the respective codices.

Anyway, I couldn't see anything about base wargear being free so I'm going to concur with 75pts.

I cannot, however, answer the question of why the hell Splinter Cannons are considered to be worth 10pts apiece. No

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 13 2021, 13:30

The "why" of it escapes me also.

My theory is that this is a Post-Codex point cost document. Still hoping we get our Codex this month, but as a DE player I am used to disappointment Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 13 2021, 22:48

I'm still plying them as 65pts base then 10pts for the 2nd cannon as every entry with a "no optional change" that I have read (please points out any that are not like that) has the "no optional change" gear baked into the cost of the model. Also units that has a weapon and the option to add a 2nd or 3rd, etc.. of the same weapon that is free says "Additional XYZ" example Rhino.

So I am reading it as "Datasheet entry is base points, optional entries are +X points"

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Thu Jan 14 2021, 20:17; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 20:15

Not to worry, as usual we just need a FAQ for the FAQ (for the FAQ of the FAQ).

Let the FAQ-ening begin!
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 20:33

@amishprn86 wrote:
I'm still plying them as 65pts base then 10pts for the 2nd cannon as every entry with a "no optional change" that I have read (please points out any that are not like that) has the "no optional change" gear baked into the cost of the model. Also units that has a weapon and the option to add a 2nd or 3rd, etc.. of the same weapon that is free says "Additional XYZ" example Rhino.

So I am reading it as "Datasheet entry is base points, optional entries are +X points"

Doesn't the Archon contradict that, though? Unless you're saying he gets his Huskblade for free because it's his base weapon, in spite of it costing 5pts?


@fisheyes wrote:
Not to worry, as usual we just need a FAQ for the FAQ (for the FAQ of the FAQ).

Let the FAQ-ening begin!

GW - "We heard you liked FAQs, so we've made FAQs for your FAQs." Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 20:48

Unless they changed the base weapon of the archon to be a venom blade/power sword and splinter pistol and didnt bother to put that down anywhere to cause exactly this kind of confusion and im inclined to think that's what they did as no other entry has their base equipment listed with a "...+ _ points" so either this is a typo for not a huskblade or the huskblade is no longer the base equipment for the archon
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 21:21

In the meantime next FAQ or V9 Codex, the venom cost is 75pts : 65 basic rate + 10 for the first cannon.
And dit it really need a second?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 22:22

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
I'm still plying them as 65pts base then 10pts for the 2nd cannon as every entry with a "no optional change" that I have read (please points out any that are not like that) has the "no optional change" gear baked into the cost of the model. Also units that has a weapon and the option to add a 2nd or 3rd, etc.. of the same weapon that is free says "Additional XYZ" example Rhino.

So I am reading it as "Datasheet entry is base points, optional entries are +X points"

Doesn't the Archon contradict that, though? Unless you're saying he gets his Huskblade for free because it's his base weapon, in spite of it costing 5pts?


@fisheyes wrote:
Not to worry, as usual we just need a FAQ for the FAQ (for the FAQ of the FAQ).

Let the FAQ-ening begin!

GW - "We heard you liked FAQs, so we've made FAQs for your FAQs." Very Happy

The Huskblade is optional.

EDIT: CHECK MY NEW POST DOWN BELOW

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Thu Jan 14 2021, 22:56; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 22:26

30 years and 9 editions later and we cant figure out what the cost of the units are and we are arguing how to read the rules... And we actually pay for this lol
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 14 2021, 22:56

So the GW app has the Venom at 75, guess i'll do 75 for now.

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 15 2021, 12:21

@amishprn86 wrote:
So the GW app has the Venom at 75

Ah, 65 it is then. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 15 2021, 12:39

@Soulless Samurai wrote:


Ah, 65 it is then. Laughing

I am going to snap off the splinter cannon from my Venoms and replace it with a twin splinter rifle to save 10 points...

so 55?

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 15 2021, 13:03

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:


Ah, 65 it is then. Laughing

I am going to snap off the splinter cannon from my Venoms and replace it with a twin splinter rifle to save 10 points...

so 55?

Hah, well, I'm a step ahead of you. I'm going to snap the Disintegrators off my Ravager and throw the rest of the Ravager away. That means I get 3 Disintegrators for 15pts, right? Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 16 2021, 15:34

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:


Ah, 65 it is then. Laughing

I am going to snap off the splinter cannon from my Venoms and replace it with a twin splinter rifle to save 10 points...

so 55?

Hah, well, I'm a step ahead of you. I'm going to snap the Disintegrators off my Ravager and throw the rest of the Ravager away. That means I get 3 Disintegrators for 15pts, right? Very Happy

Well, I'm going to finally build that stupid plastic Archon that I got in a box set, and just fully lean in into the mummy pose. He'll be equipped with nothing but curses, both verbal and hexical for 50 points.
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 16 2021, 20:02

@sekac wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:


Ah, 65 it is then. Laughing

I am going to snap off the splinter cannon from my Venoms and replace it with a twin splinter rifle to save 10 points...

so 55?

Hah, well, I'm a step ahead of you. I'm going to snap the Disintegrators off my Ravager and throw the rest of the Ravager away. That means I get 3 Disintegrators for 15pts, right? Very Happy

Well, I'm going to finally build that stupid plastic Archon that I got in a box set, and just fully lean in into the mummy pose. He'll be equipped with nothing but curses, both verbal and hexical for 50 points.

That stupid plastic Archon doesn't actually look half bad with some kitbashing. Hell, even GW prefers to show off a Kitbash of the Archon in our codex, that should tell you something.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 16 2021, 21:05

All my main Archon I use are 100% kit bashes and none uses the new plastic Archon, I hate everything about the new Archon.

Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? QPz7eld

Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? 3PKYDse

Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? KSvJIPM

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 16 2021, 23:50

That's a really cool use of a spirit host (?) part for the second Archon. Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 18 2021, 13:05

Dude, I am totally stealing that second Archon. Bought those sprit guys to try and bash some Mandrakes, this looks WAY better Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Little confused. How much do our venoms cost?   Little confused. How much do our venoms cost? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 18 2021, 13:21

I got a few bits from AoS nighthaunt I was going to do a full Ynnari theme with them as I have 4 armies worth of points for DE. But never felt like finishing with the new Ynnari rules, maybe this time around I will if Ynnari gets updated.

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