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 Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit

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JRG
Hellion
JRG

Posts : 69
Join date : 2015-03-09

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PostSubject: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 14 2020, 18:19

Hi all,

Hopefully a quick question that can be easily answered.
When you have multiple units that charged the same enemy unit in that turn's charge phase, if that enemy unit has been destroyed, can the units that charged that destroyed enemy unit (but have not yet activated) still pile in and/or consolidate. (Within the limits of each rule respectively)

So if Drazar and a venom both charge 5 marines and Drazar kills all 5 before the venom fights, would the venom still pile in and consolidate, would legal action would the venom be able to do?

Thanks!
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Silverglade
Wych
Silverglade

Posts : 521
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 15:12

Yes it would.

You likely wouldn't be able to do anything other than pile in and consolidate that venom unless you had declared a charge against a unit you pile in/consolidate to. But you could get the 6" (3" pile in and 3" consolidate) extra movement towards the closest enemy unit.
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1787
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 15:17

Pretty sure you need to be within 1" to do the consolidate (second move).

Any unit that charged gets to do the 3" pile in (first move). On the second fight phase, if you are not within 1", you would not get either 3" move.

That has been how my group interprets the rules anyway.
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Oaka
Kabalite Warrior
Oaka

Posts : 148
Join date : 2020-08-02

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 16:56

Yes, otherwise Drazhar wouldn't get his second fight if he kills the models he's engaged with. If you charge, you get to activate. If you didn't charge, however, you can only activate if you are engaged, so it is possible to strategically remove models to prevent a unit from fighting in that situation.
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JRG
Hellion
JRG

Posts : 69
Join date : 2015-03-09

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 17:20

Thank you all for your responses.
Yes, Oaka exactly, if it was only models within 1" could pile in, a unit that charged could be stopped from fighting if your opponent removed those models in 1" of that charging unit first. If you can still pile in to a unit even if the models of that unit you charged were removed.(but can only atk the unit you charged)

I agree with Silverglade, my understanding is that the venom could pile-in and then consolidate.

My reasoning is:

Pile-In, the rules state in the fight phase, select an eligible unit, an eligible unit is one that is within 1" of an enemy or one that charged this turn. Thus the venom is eligible. Then rules the state; when you select a unit to fight it first piles in. Pile-in states - move a unit upto 3" to the closest enemy. No mention of the unit you charged. This means the venom could move 3" towards the nearest enemy.

As the unit the venom charged is destroyed, it can't atk anything, even of any models are within 1".

Consolidate, Fight states after atks, the unit consolidates. A unit consolidates upto 3" ,the move must end the unit closer to the nearest enemy unit. This means the venom can move upto 3" towards the nearest enemy.

This could then result in the venom moving upto 6" additional inches (doesn't move into base contact as part of either move)

Fisheyes, so does your group play different to the above, what part of the rules do you feel confirms you can only consolidate if within 1" of an enemy unit?

Thanks all! Appreciate the feedback.
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1787
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 19:40

Forgive me if I mix up consolidate/pile in. I will refer to them as first and second move instead (sorry, been playing this game too long and cant recall all the changing names).

My understanding is that the Venom would get the first 3" move because it charged, but would not be eligible for the second 3" move if it did not make any attacks (assuming Drazhar killed everything nearby before it got a change to attack).

Now I could easily be mistaken, someone please correct me if I am wrong.
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JRG
Hellion
JRG

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Join date : 2015-03-09

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 20:30

Thanks for the quick response fisheyes! I remember the days of playing DE in 3rd with consolidate moves and sweeping advances! So many editions it's easy to get the names of things mixed up. Very Happy

In the fight section in the rules which explains the sequence of the fight phase it states the following:
"Fight: When you select a unit to fight, it first piles in, then the models in the unit must make close combat attacks, then the unit consolidates."

Then under select targets it states "if there are no viable targets (because all enemy units are beyond engagement range etc.) Then that unit can't make close combat atks but can still consolidate.




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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

Posts : 310
Join date : 2018-11-05
Location : Hunting Xenos

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 15 2020, 22:21

By that ruling, yes the venom can make both moves.

When you pick a unit to fight, it first makes it's pile in, fights, and can then consolidate whether or not it fought.

Units are eligible to fight if they charged that turn and/or are within engagement range of any enemy units


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JRG
Hellion
JRG

Posts : 69
Join date : 2015-03-09

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 17 2020, 23:41

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think we have reached a close consensus, now I just need to do the same thing with my own game group. Any tips on that would be appreciated. Very Happy
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Silverglade
Wych
Silverglade

Posts : 521
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 18 2020, 14:23

correct. You don't have to be within 1" to consolidate. Nothing in the rules says that.
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Oaka
Kabalite Warrior
Oaka

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Join date : 2020-08-02

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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 18 2020, 16:14

The older your gaming group is and the more editions they have played through makes it harder to adjust to new rules, I believe. We hashed out this exact issue during a game but it took a while to figure out as we're still used to initiative steps, power fists striking last, and being able to remove models from combat to prevent attacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit   Fight phase, multiple unit combat and pile in to a destroyed unit I_icon_minitime

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