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 FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update

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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update Empty
PostSubject: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 19:13

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/the-legends-live-on/

Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven Strike Fighter Splinter cannons are -1ap, hmm is this a look into the future?

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FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update Empty
PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 19:40

I think the key takeaway are the "Ally of Convenience" rules:
• This unit can be included in a <Craftworld> or <Kabal> Detachment and models in that Detachment can still gain their Detachment abilities.
• The inclusion of this unit in your army does not prevent Asuryani or Drukhari units in your army from using any rules that require every model in your army to have the Asuryani or Drukhari keywords.

This includes the Reavers, Skyreavers and Corsair Cloud Dancer.

For some reasons, Skyreavers are labeled as Troops on their datasheet, but are grouped into Fast Attack on the points cost table. I assume the latter is a mistake and they are supposed to be troops.

The only question is... where do we get jackpacks to use for conversions on Kabalites?
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Subsanity
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 21:00

I for one am very happy to take dissonance cannon reavers. Just need some dis cannons to convert them.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 21:37

Brace of pistols got nerfed to hell and back, but reckless abandon is awesome.

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 21:54

THE <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, AND <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> KEYWORDSEvery Asuryani unit in this section is from a craftworld, and has the <Craftworld> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Craftworlds.Every Drukhari unit in this section is from a Kabal, Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven, and has the <Kabal>, <Wych Cult> or <Haemonculus Coven> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Drukhari.
Does this mean I chose the kabal keyword and my corsars can take advantage of obssesions?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 02:02

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I think the key takeaway are the "Ally of Convenience" rules:
• This unit can be included in a <Craftworld> or <Kabal> Detachment and models in that Detachment can still gain their Detachment abilities.
• The inclusion of this unit in your army does not prevent Asuryani or Drukhari units in your army from using any rules that require every model in your army to have the Asuryani or Drukhari keywords.

This includes the Reavers, Skyreavers and Corsair Cloud Dancer.

For some reasons, Skyreavers are labeled as Troops on their datasheet, but are grouped into Fast Attack on the points cost table. I assume the latter is a mistake and they are supposed to be troops.

The only question is... where do we get jackpacks to use for conversions on Kabalites?

Convert your own or ... other means, thats why they are legends, though they haven't sold them sense mid way 7th....

Also Sky Reavers were always troops, so I think the symbol is correct.

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Brace of pistols got nerfed to hell and back, but reckless abandon is awesome.

Yes but they are free now and I'd rather have free than someone good for 5pts.


@Subsanity wrote:
THE <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, AND <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> KEYWORDSEvery Asuryani unit in this section is from a craftworld, and has the <Craftworld> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Craftworlds.Every Drukhari unit in this section is from a Kabal, Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven, and has the <Kabal>, <Wych Cult> or <Haemonculus Coven> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Drukhari.

Does this mean I chose the kabal keyword and my corsars can take advantage of obssesions?

No as they don't actually have <Kabal>, <Wych>, or <Coven>, they can be in Raiding Force and they get ObSec.

PS, they no longer can use our Transports as well sadly.

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 02:56

I realized this a little wile ago unfortunately. However no matter dessonance cannons still look good to me.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 04:00

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

The only question is... where do we get jackpacks to use for conversions on Kabalites?

I've got some of the old 3rd Ed scourges, so I coukd use their wings for it. I might also experiment with using skyboards, though they're probably too big.
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Void Prince
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 10:05

I have to say I am a little underwhelmed.

So many units not included, Balestrike Band, Ghostwalkers etc, no transports (seeing as we can’t use those of our “cousins”) and no access to HQ’s!

A bit miffed that Wasps are Craftworld only. It would have been nice to have something different in my DE list.

Also, we don’t gain any DE/Craftworld traits but have no access to Coterie options either. Looks like this was another Friday afternoon , “let get it done before we go home” job.

I guess the only good thing is it gives us a points value for the basic models and we can use , mainly, Craftworld points cost for things like the Falcon or Hornet. I may look to incorporate one of the many homebrew codex options out there to actually field a full Corsairs force?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 13:14

My WIP Corsairs will continue to sit in their box.

Wouldent be surprised if they flesh this out into a full faction in future years though.

Did not see the -1AP splinter, but that sure sounds promising.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 13:14

@Void Prince wrote:
I have to say I am a little underwhelmed.

So many units not included, Balestrike Band, Ghostwalkers etc, no transports (seeing as we can’t use those of our “cousins”) and no access to HQ’s!

A bit miffed that Wasps are Craftworld only. It would have been nice to have something different in my DE list.

Also, we don’t gain any DE/Craftworld traits but have no access to Coterie options either. Looks like this was another Friday afternoon , “let get it done before we go home” job.

I guess the only good thing is it gives us a points value for the basic models and we can use , mainly, Craftworld points cost for things like the Falcon or Hornet. I may look to incorporate one of the many homebrew codex options out there to actually field a full Corsairs force?

Those units have been gone sense the start of 8th. This update sadly is much better than what they were in index at the start of 8th.

Trust me I am mad that Corsairs are gone, I have written to GW many times about it. I had a full Corsairs army that I really miss.

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 16:36

@amishprn86 wrote:


Those units have been gone sense the start of 8th. This update sadly is much better than what they were in index at the start of 8th.

Trust me I am mad that Corsairs are gone, I have written to GW many times about it. I had a full Corsairs army that I really miss.

I feel your pain on that situation.

My own force has been idle for far too long. I will have to take another hard look at using a Yannari force. 3 patrols combining Corsairs into a Craftworld/Kabal/Kabal set up?

sekac; "I've got some of the old 3rd Ed scourges, so I coukd use their wings for it"

Thats exactly what I did for my Balestrike Band but used guardian defenders!
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 19:42

Why do corsair feel more like a Druhkari army than the actual Druhkari?
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 22:25

@Archon_91 wrote:
Why do corsair feel more like a Druhkari army than the actual Druhkari?

If you're referring to 7th edition, probably because actual effort went into them.

EDIT: Also, holy hell. Corsair weapons and abilities are complete and utter garbage. Brace of Pistols is abysmal, Void Sabre is a pre-buff Power Sword.

And the less said about Reckless Abandon the better.

A corpse could write more inspiring rules than these.

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 01:36

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Archon_91 wrote:
Why do corsair feel more like a Druhkari army than the actual Druhkari?

If you're referring to 7th edition, probably because actual effort went into them.

EDIT: Also, holy hell. Corsair weapons and abilities are complete and utter garbage. Brace of Pistols is abysmal, Void  Sabre is a pre-buff Power Sword.

And the less said about Reckless Abandon the better.

A corpse could write more inspiring rules than these.

You're being unduly pessimistic here. The Dissonance Cannon looks extremely good, especially since the Corsair bike unit can take 1 per model - it's almost the equivalent of a squad of Reavers all being able to take Disintegrators.

I'm actually a bit irritated that Corsairs didn't have these rules for 8th edition, because I absolutely would have run them. I'm still tempted to do so in Crusade lists.
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 05:07

Cloud Dancers are really good.  The Dissonance cannon got better, moving from Heavy to Assault, and each model comes in 6 points cheaper.

Ynnari Cloud Dancers look great to me.  Paired with an Yncarne who can try to keep pace, they can get 5++ 6+++ with morale immunity and reroll 1's to hit on those Dissonance cannons, as well as access to the Ynnari stratagems.  Strength from Death combined with Reckless Abandon is also cheeky.

I 'think' they can only be Ynnari in a Craftworlds detachment, however, as their limit to being in a Kabal detachment, rather than Drukhari, sort of messes with how a detachment becomes Ynnari.  It's great though if you wanted to add them into a Kabal patrol.  Venoms filled with blaster Trueborn and Cloud Dancers with Dissonance cannons is about as anti-marine as you can get. And boy does that army sound fun, glasscannon all the way with crazy speed.
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 05:35

@amishprn86 wrote:

@Subsanity wrote:
THE <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, AND <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> KEYWORDSEvery Asuryani unit in this section is from a craftworld, and has the <Craftworld> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Craftworlds.Every Drukhari unit in this section is from a Kabal, Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven, and has the <Kabal>, <Wych Cult> or <Haemonculus Coven> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Drukhari.

Does this mean I chose the kabal keyword and my corsars can take advantage of obssesions?

No as they don't actually have <Kabal>, <Wych>, or <Coven>, they can be in Raiding Force and they get ObSec.

PS, they no longer can use our Transports as well sadly.

Interestingly enough, I think there may be a case to be made that Corsairs can take Craftworld attributes, but not Drukhari obsessions.

If your army is Battle-forged, all <KABAL>,
<WYCH CULT> and <HAEMONCULUS COVEN>
units in a DRUKHARI Detachment gain a
Drukhari Obsession


Corsairs are not <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, or <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> units, so do not gain an obsession.

If your army is Battle-forged, all units in a
Craftworlds Detachment gain a Craftworld
Attribute


Corsairs ARE a unit in a Craftworld detachment, so gain an attribute.

At that point, though, you've already found someone to play against that is ok with Legends, so there is no reason to try to rules-lawyer it even further.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 10:30

I have 6 Cloud Dancers. I just put on 5 Dissonance Cannons on them (the 6th was a Baron so I didn't want to on him). That unit role is now changed from a 5man Melee super star to a 6 man shooting unit. But hey at least I can play them lol.

I still can't believe GW made them better then Legends them lol.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 15:44

@amishprn86 wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:
...

Convert your own or ... other means, thats why they are legends, though they haven't sold them sense mid way 7th....  

That's my idea, but I'm not sure what to use as conversion material.
I was thinking of getting some 3rd party wings, but these were the best I could find:
- https://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/mechanical-wings
- https://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/feathered-wings
- https://www.ragingheroes.com/products/angel-wings-s-sf

I'm not 100% sold on their of those.

Edit: Or perhaps I should try to get my hands on some corsair jetpack bits and copy the mold using blue stuff. The bits have such a simple shape that this should work quite well.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 11 2020, 17:52

Honestly you don't need the head or pack, the wings are fine on their own. Converting wings are SUPER EASY.

Get 0.5mm and 1mm thick plasticard and basically make your own. PS, any thin/thicker size is fine, 0.4-0.8 or w/e you like.

Here is a quick pic to understand why to use 2 different sizes, dark grey is thicker piece.

FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update Home_m11

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14 2020, 08:08

Was looking to find some razorwing jet diss cannon bits. No luck finding the does anyone have some ideas where to find something els?
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14 2020, 11:34

Shapeways

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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14 2020, 15:01

@Oaka wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

@Subsanity wrote:
THE <CRAFTWORLD>, <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, AND <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> KEYWORDSEvery Asuryani unit in this section is from a craftworld, and has the <Craftworld> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Craftworlds.Every Drukhari unit in this section is from a Kabal, Wych Cult or Haemonculus Coven, and has the <Kabal>, <Wych Cult> or <Haemonculus Coven> keyword. These are keywords that you can select for yourself, following the guidance detailed in Codex: Drukhari.

Does this mean I chose the kabal keyword and my corsars can take advantage of obssesions?

No as they don't actually have <Kabal>, <Wych>, or <Coven>, they can be in Raiding Force and they get ObSec.

PS, they no longer can use our Transports as well sadly.

Interestingly enough, I think there may be a case to be made that Corsairs can take Craftworld attributes, but not Drukhari obsessions.

If your army is Battle-forged, all <KABAL>,
<WYCH CULT> and <HAEMONCULUS COVEN>
units in a DRUKHARI Detachment gain a
Drukhari Obsession


Corsairs are not <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, or <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> units, so do not gain an obsession.

If your army is Battle-forged, all units in a
Craftworlds Detachment gain a Craftworld
Attribute


Corsairs ARE a unit in a Craftworld detachment, so gain an attribute.

At that point, though, you've already found someone to play against that is ok with Legends, so there is no reason to try to rules-lawyer it even further.


So, because I quite often struggle with the whole Obsession/Trait/Attribute thing would some kind Archon (come to think of it is there such a thing?) clarify the following;

1. Corsairs in any DE Detachment - I get they do not get any benefits etc
2. Corsairs in any Craftworld Detachment - would the majority opinion be that the Craftworld attributes can be reasonably said to apply?
3. Craftworld Corsairs and specific other Craftworld units played as a Ynnari detachment - apart from Ynnari traits, if 2 above is ok, what if any additional traits would they keep i.e Autarch aura etc?

I dont want to be "that guy" but as I want to use my Corsairs as part of a Ynnari force I think I need all the help I can get!
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14 2020, 16:13

This is how I see it:

1.  Corsairs can be part of any <Kabal> detachment, so no, they cannot be in just any DE detachment.  They do not get obsessions because they are not Kabal units.

2.  Corsairs can be in any Craftworlds detachment.  All units in a Craftworlds detachment gain attributes, but I would not play it that way.

3.  Corsairs are selected in a Craftworlds detachment.  This detachment also adds one of Yvraine, the Visarch, or the Yncarne, and chooses to become a Ynnari detachment.  I feel like this is the order it works because of the Ynnari rules:

If Yvraine, the Visarch or the Yncarne is included in a
Craftworlds, HARLEQUINS or DRUKHARI Detachment,
you can choose for that Detachment to either
remain a Craftworlds, HARLEQUINS or DRUKHARI
Detachment, or for that Detachment to become an
YNNARI Detachment.

So according to that you already have selected units before declaring the detachment switches over to Ynnari.  I don't think that switch would kick out the Corsair units.  I feel less confident about allowing Corsairs in a Kabal detachment that becomes Ynnari, however, because of the additional requirement that Kabal units become Reborn Drukhari.

It's also worth noting that you mention the Autarch aura but Corsairs would not benefit from this. They are not <Craftworld> units. They would only be considered Ynnari and Aeldari units for rules interactions.
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PostSubject: Re: FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update   FW Legends update, Corsairs playable in DE detachments and Raven cool update I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14 2020, 19:20

Hi, Oaka,

Thanks for the above. I appreciate your comments.

I should have chosen my words somewhat better for Q1. I did mean,any Kabal DE Detachment..

It's annoying that GW seem set on making the simple task of choosing a force so convoluted. Perhaps time to email the powers that be for a few clarifications?
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