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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
Hellion
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PostSubject: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 06:09

I thought this was odd how all these units are missing
Makes me wonder if GW is going to either remove the units in the new codex or release new models and new rules
Look at other codexs and consider vs other datasheets missing units pictures
Just an observational note
Fluff wise using beasts isn't thrown around anymore so I'm thinking they might be removed 
I'm expecting a full Overhauled Drukhari 9th Ed codex
Thoughts?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 14:16

It has literally 100's of typos, wrong stats, mistakes, etc.. so don't look into it to much. Just email GW about it and hope it will be fixed in the next year.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 15:10

@DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ wrote:

I'm expecting a full Overhauled Drukhari 9th Ed codex
Thoughts?

I'm expecting a zero-effort codex that fixes none of the current issues.

If the codex was written on a weekday ending in '-y', then we can also expect to lose 1-3 units.

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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 17:08

Beasts are a constant disappointment for me. Not their stat line. I actually cannot speak to that, having never used them. But the range of models and their basic role.

Without the lore (that Drukhari capture unusual and deadly fauna, beast-like Xenos, and chaos beasts and use them in their arenas and hunts against gladiators, slaves, and warriors for training and sport), they seem extremely out of place in the range. They dont look like drukhari, they dont feel like drukhari, and they dont seem to do anything that another, arguably better unit does.

So their use seems to be that they are cool units that are very fluffy. Potentially for narrative play only. Or in very niche armies. But if THAT is the case, then the range seems to make the least use of the available lore. Presumably it is expensive for GW to design a new range of models, and beasts have never sold well. But if you are going to add them at all, why not capitalize on existing ranges. Drukhari lacks any sort of artillery, because it makes no sense to have it. And yet, we know that Drukhari capture Nid creatures, presumably sever them from their hiveminds, and just... keep them? Why would an archon or a succubus NOT webway one into the back field? Sure they are expensive, slow moving, difficult to capture, and yes, they would try to warp them back again after, but if its not possible, its just a nid, leave it behind.

Are you telling me there is nothing in the AoS range (and formerly the Fantasy range) that could be given a stat line and a new name and shoved in the Drukhari codex?

I dont know if I am more cross with GW proper not taking the chance/being too greedy/hating Xenos armies, or ForgeWorld, who have a little more freedom. We have the smallest forgeworld range of any 40k army. And yet it would be so easy to churn out model variants or even a beast titan. But no, nothing. Makes my blood boil.

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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 18:43

Yeah I totally agree with you 
Our cousins get all the love from both forge world and gw
Not sure where they are going with Drukhari 
9th Ed codex should give us an idea
With a new Leith model coming out who knows what else is being made with it
Drazar was an excellent model
Necrons got a massive overhaul and new models so likely we may as well
I'm expecting reaver and hellions, wyches to be usable in 9th
So maybe upping there stats will make beasts irrelevant 
I like my beasts
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 08 2020, 19:39

@albions-angel wrote:
Beasts are a constant disappointment for me. Not their stat line. I actually cannot speak to that, having never used them. But the range of models and their basic role.

Without the lore (that Drukhari capture unusual and deadly fauna, beast-like Xenos, and chaos beasts and use them in their arenas and hunts against gladiators, slaves, and warriors for training and sport), they seem extremely out of place in the range. They dont look like drukhari, they dont feel like drukhari, and they dont seem to do anything that another, arguably better unit does.

So their use seems to be that they are cool units that are very fluffy. Potentially for narrative play only. Or in very niche armies. But if THAT is the case, then the range seems to make the least use of the available lore. Presumably it is expensive for GW to design a new range of models, and beasts have never sold well. But if you are going to add them at all, why not capitalize on existing ranges. Drukhari lacks any sort of artillery, because it makes no sense to have it. And yet, we know that Drukhari capture Nid creatures, presumably sever them from their hiveminds, and just... keep them? Why would an archon or a succubus NOT webway one into the back field? Sure they are expensive, slow moving, difficult to capture, and yes, they would try to warp them back again after, but if its not possible, its just a nid, leave it behind.

Are you telling me there is nothing in the AoS range (and formerly the Fantasy range) that could be given a stat line and a new name and shoved in the Drukhari codex?

I dont know if I am more cross with GW proper not taking the chance/being too greedy/hating Xenos armies, or ForgeWorld, who have a little more freedom. We have the smallest forgeworld range of any 40k army. And yet it would be so easy to churn out model variants or even a beast titan. But no, nothing. Makes my blood boil.


If I recall correctly, the beasts were partly introduced because of Jes Goodwin's passion for exotic beasts that exist in 40k. He was also very happy when they introduced plastic Ur-Ghuls (source: Voxcasts with Jes Goodwin, they are quite interesting).

I'm pretty sure that beasts in the current form (aka resin) are going to get phased out eventually. The question is, will they be replaced? I think it's a given that GW will release more beasts in the future for Blackstone Fortress. They have done so for the Ur-Ghul and the Ambull.

Now, if they also release a Khymerae sprue and something else you could already replace the beast lineup with the new ones. Surely, this won't happen soon, but it would make sense (ok, it's debatable how sensible the moves of GW are, I'm just saying).

I think a good beast lineup could really elevate pure Wych Cult lists. I would a love beast that fit into heavy-support and can rip apart tanks to shreds with their claw (updated Clawed Fiends) or a giant hydra-like monster such as the Dark Elf ones. Beasts provide speed, ablative wounds and don't need transports. All they need is some thought and unique obsessions for Beastmasters.

Blackstone Fortress will be discontinued eventually. And plastic molds are notoriously expensive, while the plastic itself is not. Go figure.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 12:09

Wyches have a pretty small selection of models, I have a hard time believing they will remove something that does "technically" have models (I know, famous last words for any DE player).

Back in 7th I bought a pack of 10 Chaos Beasts (little dog things) for like $40, which look nearly as good as the Khmare model. I dont think they are lacking for potential models to fill those slots.

DE dont need as big an overhaul as the Necrons did, or the Tau. I would be more-or-less happy with some slight buffs and a new model or two.

TBF, Craftworld have ancient models that actually NEED a re-vamp. Those Aspect Warriors have aged horribly, and for one of the "main" factions its kinda embarrassing.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 12:56

@fisheyes wrote:
DE dont need as big an overhaul as the Necrons did

I would have to vehemently disagree on this point.

Even as a Necron player, it is my firm belief that DE needed that overhaul far more than Necrons did.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 13:05

He is saying we don't need that huge model range update.

Bests can be 1 unit with a BM
Court already have 1 plastic, just give us Sslyths and be done with it
Grots and Urien
Add Vect and another HQ options

Boom we done

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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 13:11

@amishprn86 wrote:
He is saying we don't need that huge model range update.

Bests can be 1 unit with a BM
Court already have 1 plastic, just give us Sslyths and be done with it
Grots and Urien
Add Vect and another HQ options

Boom we done

Yep, truly Necrons - who got to keep every single one of their new characters after 5th and who already had more units than we do - definitely needed a swathe of new models including a pile of HQs. Whilst we - who are currently stuck with barely any options at all - apparently just 1 extra HQ and 1 special character. Why even bother at that point? Might as well just sell us a codex where every page is "Play Space Marines, dumbass!".

I realise that GW has offered us pigswill for years but I didn't realise DE players had started happily guzzling it down and praising GW for its excellent taste.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 14:06

Oh no, i'm not saying we got screwed, we completely id, but we need more rules than models. A couple new units and some new plastics is fine for models. But we need a full rules rewrite and many more old rules added back. Like WWP's, Flybys/HoW, Archon gear, disembark after moving vehicles, and the list can go one for another 5 paragraphs lol.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 14:15

@amishprn86 wrote:
Oh no, i'm not saying we got screwed, we completely id, but we need more rules than models. A couple new units and some new plastics is fine for models. But we need a full rules rewrite and many more old rules added back. Like WWP's, Flybys/HoW, Archon gear, disembark after moving vehicles, and the list can go one for another 5 paragraphs lol.

My thoughts exactly (I was actually crafting a response along the same lines).

It's interesting that to "fix" our army, most of what we need is some of the same rules back that we had in 5th ed. as opposed to anything radically different.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 14:16

as far as i'm concerned, from last i heard, DE have ALWAYS been in the competitive scene, not exactly in the top tiers, but always been there nonetheless.
Necrons on the other side.....never really heard of them recently breaking anything in the competitive scene at all.
Thats' the main reason i think Necrons did need a massive boost of love while the DE could still live up with only a few changes there and there.
Note that WE DO NEED some changes, but not any major uplift like some other factions needed.
So far i'm pleased the way 9th edition seems to present itself and the future of it.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 15:04

@Kalmah wrote:
as far as i'm concerned, from last i heard, DE have ALWAYS been in the competitive scene, not exactly in the top tiers, but always been there nonetheless.
Necrons on the other side.....never really heard of them recently breaking anything in the competitive scene at all.
Thats' the main reason i think Necrons did need a massive boost of love while the DE could still live up with only a few changes there and there.
Note that WE DO NEED some changes, but not any major uplift like some other factions needed.
So far i'm pleased the way 9th edition seems to present itself and the future of it.

My view is that Necrons had a good range of models but were hampered by terrible rules (with RPs being among the worst offenders) and a general lack of customisation options.

DE were more competitive, but suffered from a very limited range and bland rules with almost no flavour or customisation to speak of.

With that in mind, I think Necrons were far more in need of better thought-out rules than a swathe of new releases. New models are nice, of course, I just don't think that was what was holding Necrons back, if you see what I mean. Meanwhile, DE have been stuck for the entirety of 8th with just a single generic HQ choice for each subfaction.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 15:17

for sure, i want more HQ! at least a little bit of diversity....Also one more model per faction (Coven, Cult, Kabal) would not hurt.
Now i can't wait to see what's in store for the Death Guard only so that it give us a rough idea on what to expect for the future of our codex.
Necron being the front face of Indomitus, it was clear that they would receive a lot of hype, now for the remaining faction, i think the Death guard will be a good point of comparison for all of us.

As for the topic, i gotta say that i actually bought almost everything Drukhari related (still available on GW site), but i never even had the intention on buying anything beast related.....as someone pointed above, they just don't feel like they belong in a drukhari army. Note that i never tried them, so i may be missing some good elements.
I would gladly change my mind if those beast where doing something different from our other models: big beast that would be a good antivehicle, something like that, something the size of a Mutalith Vortex Beast or something like that....something that would play the role of a big tank.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 16:11

I wish we had more generic HQ choice with a real new role in battle.

Kabal
Archon (Raid leader  with CP bonus)
Mistress of poisons (Poisonned weapons bonus)

Cult
Succubus (melee bonus for wyches units)
Master of arena beast (speed or attack bonus for beasts units) mounted on big monster

Coven
Haemonculus (toughness or Insensible To Pain bonus)
Artefacts collector (several lethal weapons can use once per battle)
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 19:17

@Kalmah wrote:
as far as i'm concerned, from last i heard, DE have ALWAYS been in the competitive scene, not exactly in the top tiers, but always been there nonetheless.
Necrons on the other side.....never really heard of them recently breaking anything in the competitive scene at all.
Thats' the main reason i think Necrons did need a massive boost of love while the DE could still live up with only a few changes there and there.
Note that WE DO NEED some changes, but not any major uplift like some other factions needed.
So far i'm pleased the way 9th edition seems to present itself and the future of it.

Nope not at all in 7th formations era. 5th during Necrons and GK near the bottom as well. There was a small time in 3rd, a small time in 4th, and a even smaller time in 5th. Start of 6th if you went Beaststar we were competitive until our new book and then we were terrible again. 7th we had 1 build Talos and Reavers with venom spam. Once the Formations came out it was 1 unit of 5 Talos and loads of Reavers with venoms. But it didn't do well at all. Wraithknights and Riptides, also +800 points free for Admech and Marines was way to strong for us.

PS you could do DSing Grot units instead of Talos, but the Talos got +1VP for each kill that was not a vehicle or MC... Sadly 90% of all units had 10+ vehicles so it was really hard to even get points like that. The Reavers were really fun and good. I super miss them. They got auto hits on the charge (D3 str 4 per bike and D6 Str6 per Caltrops)

Your list was something like

Spoiler:
 

And sometimes if you can take more than 1 formation (most events limit to 1) the other Formation was 1 haemon 1 Cronos 1 Talos, it gave a 12" 4+++ aura to all coven, and the unit got +1 WS/Init. Combine that with 20 Grots or 5 Talos formation and you are able to not get tabled turn 1.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 09 2020, 20:05

@amishprn86 wrote:
And sometimes if you can take more than 1 formation (most events limit to 1) the other Formation was 1 haemon 1 Cronos 1 Talos, it gave a 12" 4+++ aura to all coven, and the unit got +1 WS/Init. Combine that with 20 Grots or 5 Talos formation and you are able to not get tabled turn 1.

Aaaahhh... The good Dark Artisan. deep striking a buffed talos and chronos 9" from ennemy.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 02:05

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
And sometimes if you can take more than 1 formation (most events limit to 1) the other Formation was 1 haemon 1 Cronos 1 Talos, it gave a 12" 4+++ aura to all coven, and the unit got +1 WS/Init. Combine that with 20 Grots or 5 Talos formation and you are able to not get tabled turn 1.

Aaaahhh... The good Dark Artisan. deep striking a buffed talos and chronos 9" from ennemy.

It wasn't 9" away, that was the old scatter DS rules lol.

But i do miss my Dark Artisan, with Grotesquerie or Corpsethief Claw formation. Fun times.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 13:26

Those were fun times, really enjoyed both the Dark Artisian and the Grotesquery. Nowhere near as good as the other factions Formations, but could allow us to play on the same table (and made us better players generally).

I did mean that the DE rules are not as bad as either the Necrons RP or the current Tau rules. PfP is actually good, and the Flayed Skull, PoF and Wych traits are all "decent" (nowhere near Marine levels, but still decent).

Our models are (generally) still great, even though they are now 10 years old. Not counting the Grotesque obviously (although we have all worked around that by converting/kitbashing).

Honestly, all we really need are some more out-of-phase Mortal Wound abilities (similar to the C'Tan powers for the Necrons) so that we can kill those damn C'Tans/Ghaz models with the damage per phase restrictions. And some more-fair unit pricing. And the updates to Melta and Lance damage. Maybe a Lt-like HQ option for the 3 factions. More competitive Strats.

Hmm, that turned into a longer list than I thought, maybe my position isnt as strong as I initially thought...
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PostSubject: Re: 40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures   40k App does not display Beast Master or beasts pictures I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 10 2020, 13:48

Oh yeah, I really miss the Dark Artisan.

Not least because it wasn't just the usual 'take these units and get an extra bonus'. It actually let you do something unique.

I really wish we'd had an option to still use it (or something similar) in the new book. e.g. a Stratagem to combine a Haemonculus, Talos, and Cronos into a single unit at the start of the game.

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