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 Why no charge after disembarking from transports?

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FledglingArchon
Slave
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PostSubject: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 21:17

Hello all.

Returning from a long exile since 3rd edition. A lot has changed I must admit.
I was reading the rules when I was struck by the fact, that units can’t charge after disembarking from a transport. I must admit I was totally surprised by this as I had just assumed that was a possibility.
It would be awesome to send your assaulttransports storming at the enemy lines and unleashing close quarter mayhem. Awesome yes, but I can’t quite fathom why it is not allowed?
Would it be too powerful, gamebreaking or skew tactics too much in favor of CC?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 23:11

I'm pretty sure you can charge after disembarking. But you can't disembark after moving your transport.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 03:44

note that this would be an amazing special rule for the next Drukhari Codex to be included!
thats the kind of upgrade id love for our faction, mobility and glass canon! but that indeed could be a little bit too powerful....maybe Wink
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 04:38

You can charge after, but you have to get out and move before the vehicle has moved that turn. With that said some Imperial vehicles lets you get out after the vehicle moved but then you can not charge so you most likely are getting a special unit rule mixed up with a core rule.

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FledglingArchon
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 07:16

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that I indeed meant that it should be possible to charge after disembarking a transport that moved. It would make sense in a wych cult, and assault oriented vehicles in general. It could at least be a special rule or strategem.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 10:48

Its not as bad as you think, i play lots of melee and have no problems with it. I normally have Incubi and 2x10 Wyches in vehicles every list and have no problems getting them into melee as its really hard for foot units to turn 1 charge, so a turn 2 charge doesn't change if you can get out before or after. B.c all armies have this rule it also equally hits all armies the same.

Also in older editions the vehicle only moved 6" then you could get out and charge, its not like you could move full speed, given that many infantry melee now moved 7-10" with a 3" disembark and finally you can charge over 6" now, so it really comes out very close to other editions in total movement.

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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 13:37

Also keep in mind that the role of the transport has changed with 9th edition. It used to be all about getting your killy units into the enemy ASAP, now its more about surviving on Objectives until your next Command Phase.

IE generally your Raider/Venom is sitting with a minimum troop unit embarked, ontop of the objective. The enemy now needs to kill your transport, then the guys who jump out, before they remove you from the Objective.

Then during your turn (after you score those sweet Primary points) you jump out and get to work.

Just a little different than before.

*Rant Time* Why Marines get to jump out of their semi-enclosed transport after movement, but we cant is beyond me. That is just a flat FU to our faction.
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FledglingArchon
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 22:30

Thank you for the clarification regarding the rules. I'm hoping for a revised rule when our new codex arrives at some point.

Of course the Marines would get the opportunity to move a transport, disembark and then charge... Because they're space Marines and that's how the stuff goes down...
I'm trying hard not to feel like the space Marines aren't getting a lot of positive attention right now. But it does feel quite skewed in their favor.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07 2020, 09:17

@FledglingArchon wrote:
Thank you for the clarification regarding the rules. I'm hoping for a revised rule when our new codex arrives at some point.

Of course the Marines would get the opportunity to move a transport, disembark and then charge... Because they're space Marines and that's how the stuff goes down...
I'm trying hard not to feel like the space Marines aren't getting a lot of positive attention right now. But it does feel quite skewed in their favor.

Marines can not charge if the get out after the vehicle moves, its more for getting into gun range.

SM are getting all the attention right now, but give it 6 months and they will be done with for a long time.

Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07 2020, 14:05

@amishprn86 wrote:
Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

Lelith is NOT a new model, even if they redo her. It would be nice to have a really new model, for a change.
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FledglingArchon
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07 2020, 14:56

@amishprn86 wrote:
@FledglingArchon wrote:
Thank you for the clarification regarding the rules. I'm hoping for a revised rule when our new codex arrives at some point.

Of course the Marines would get the opportunity to move a transport, disembark and then charge... Because they're space Marines and that's how the stuff goes down...
I'm trying hard not to feel like the space Marines aren't getting a lot of positive attention right now. But it does feel quite skewed in their favor.

Marines can not charge if the get out after the vehicle moves, its more for getting into gun range.

SM are getting all the attention right now, but give it 6 months and they will be done with for a long time.

Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

Oh, okay. I thought they could charge afterwards. As we can already fire from our transports it's not that much of an issue. But still a bit odd that they can disembark in the first place. Guess I'll have to have a look at their new codex. Just to educate myself.

I wouldn't call Lilith a new model exactly, since she's already here. But a redesign and rules update won't hurt I suppose.
I'm hoping for a broader rules update and a model or two that are indeed new and offers new and interesting dynamics.

That's all besides my initial question though.
Thank you for your answers.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08 2020, 01:23

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

Lelith is NOT a new model, even if they redo her. It would be nice to have a really new model, for a change.

She is a new MODEL just not a new UNIT

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08 2020, 16:08

@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

Lelith is NOT a new model, even if they redo her. It would be nice to have a really new model, for a change.

She is a new MODEL just not a new UNIT

Technically, you are right. But always redoing the same model doesn't make it FEEL new. It's not a new model anymore. It's the annual sculpt of the model.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08 2020, 16:28

a safe bet to say that she will receive some new ruling, more than just the average passage from 8th edition to 9th edition average boost.
i'm pretty sure she'll be still a drukhari unit and not an Innari....if not that sucks.....
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08 2020, 23:37

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Also we ARE getting a new model soon, 99% sure it is Lelith with her new model will come new rules for her (if they did to her what they did to Drazhar that'll be ace!).

Lelith is NOT a new model, even if they redo her. It would be nice to have a really new model, for a change.

She is a new MODEL just not a new UNIT

Technically, you are right. But always redoing the same model doesn't make it FEEL new. It's not a new model anymore. It's the annual sculpt of the model.

Its not just a new sculpt though... also it feels new if you never play it. She will have a new datasheet so it also would still feel new in that sense too. Look at Drazhar no one talked about him or even cared till his new rules came out and now he is auto take in almost every list. Grants he is no <Trait> and it is easier but for the Wych players if she has crazy rules.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 13:11

i can't wait for her to come out as i really want to try a wych cult list!
As a brand new player to this game, knowing that a new model was on its way, i did not purchase the old model, so for me, you bet this is a new model Wink
joking aside, i'm pretty sure she will receive a major uplift, probably even more than the one Drazhar received.....not saying she will become a power level of 10 or higher, but i'm pretty confident we won't be disapointed by her (note that after reading some posts here.....unless they release the model of Vect who fusion with the Emperor himself to create the mightiest being ever, some will always be displeased)
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 13:29

@Kalmah wrote:
i can't wait for her to come out as i really want to try a wych cult list!
As a brand new player to this game, knowing that a new model was on its way, i did not purchase the old model, so for me, you bet this is a new model Wink
joking aside, i'm pretty sure she will receive a major uplift, probably even more than the one Drazhar received.....not saying she will become a power level of 10 or higher, but i'm pretty confident we won't be disapointed by her (note that after reading some posts here.....unless they release the model of Vect who fusion with the Emperor himself to create the mightiest being ever, some will always be displeased)

Vect is a sensitive subject for many people here. Have you looked the 5th editions entries we had? This is why we are bitter with the "new" models. We've lost a lot of model already.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 14:32

this is a point i wasn't sure as a new player, i thought that EVERY model ever created where always legal to use.....so, if i get it right, if the unit is not in the latest Codex (or any additional book like Psychic Awakening) it is no longer legal to play with it in matched play?
Thanks for confirming Smile
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 17:28

@Kalmah wrote:
this is a point i wasn't sure as a new player, i thought that EVERY model ever created where always legal to use.....so, if i get it right, if the unit is not in the latest Codex (or any additional book like Psychic Awakening) it is no longer legal to play with it in matched play?
Thanks for confirming Smile

Somes are legal in legend format. But it's mostly units that were in the index and didn't make it to the codex. When the 7th edition striked, we lost about 5 HQ choices.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 17:34

hooooo ok! good to know!
that especially sucks when this HQ had some money value and you did put a lot of time and effort in it just to have it removed....
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09 2020, 20:04

They never had official models, but a lot of people made loving conversions.
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PostSubject: Re: Why no charge after disembarking from transports?   Why no charge after disembarking from transports? I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 10 2020, 09:15

@fisheyes wrote:
They never had official models, but a lot of people made loving conversions.

Sadly it's just too expensive for GW to make single models...


...unless they're Primaris Lieutenants.

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