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 Triple Kabal with Yncarne

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 11:21

So, This is the list. (edited).

Kabal of the Flayed Skull
+ HQ +
Drazhar [6 PL, 105pts]: Warlord
+ Troops +
5 x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, pistol 65
5 x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, pistol 65
+ Elites +
5 Incubi 80
5 Incubi 80
+ Dedicated Transport +
4 x Venoms 4x 75

Kabal of the Black Heart
+ HQ +
The Yncarne  290pts
+ Troops +
5 x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, pistol 65


Kabal of the Flayed Skull
+ HQ +
Archon  70 : Huskblade, Blast pistol, The Helm of Spite/Djiin Blade?
+Court+
ur-ghul
+ Troops +
5 x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, pistol 65
5 x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, pistol 65
+Elites +
5 Mandrakes 85
5 Mandrakes 85
+Flyer+
Voidraven 185
+ Dedicated Transport +
5 x Venoms 5 x 75
++ Total: 1996

The idea is:
It is based on movement! 5 ob sec troops, yncarne movement shenanigans by sacrificing a venom (by moving it very close to something I want the yncrane to be in combat with) and when the venom dies in the enemy's turn, replace it with the yncrane, pile in in combat with it (large base and venom position is crucial here), and even heal the yncrane in Subsequently turns with what the venom had inside. Mandrakes and even the voidraven can do exactly the same thing by positioning it self right after bombing something.
The list is strong(ish) in close combat, have ok anti vehicle, and plenty of venom fire that ignore light cover, (+3 mov. re-rolls 1's etc being flayed skull.) Almost everything has -1 to hit.

Your thoughts?


Last edited by Scorpion on Thu Oct 08 2020, 10:44; edited 10 times in total
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 15:51

The only thing I can think of is find 16 or 32 point to take 1-2 16 point court of Archon as ablative deaths if your venom with the Archon and Drazhar blows up. 1's happen.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 16:37

You are giving up maximum VPs for the Bring It Down secondary.

You sure you have enough CC threats? I assume the Yncarn is a beast, but Drazhar/Incubi can only dish out the pain, they are not very good at going shot for shot like Coven units.

Certainly looks like an interesting list though. You may want to try to fit in a few Dissie Ravagers, they are just too good in the Marine Meta, and you are taking Kabals anyway.

Ill also say that the Archon Court models are very versitile and useful for holding objectives/screening/performing Actions. I never regret taking a few Sslyth (have not played the other models, but my gut tells me they may be BETTER since they are 25% cheaper and fulfill the same role)
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 16:50

good list. You will win some games with this. Just two things:
1. As stated above, find points for 1-2 slyth.
2. relic is free. Not sure why you are paying for it.

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 20:12

The court is a good idea. I could remove one kabalite unit and give all the others + the archon a blast pistol. Doubling my dark light weapons. And with the spare 30 points get me a slith. I cant get 2 model of something else since I only have 30 points.
Alternative, I could keep one blast pistol off and get 2 ur-ghuls

I lose one obj sec unit but get more dark light. I will be close to enemy units anyhow so the pistols will see action.
The slith or 2 ur-ghouls could protect Drahzar and or Archon.

That is some good ideas. I will update my list.

9 Or 3 points to go. Any ideas?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 12:35

Drop the blast pistol. You will be amazed how useful those single models are (go for the double UrGhul).

I assume they will also be useful for moving your Yncarn
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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 14:11

I think that too. Deployment and placement of units in movement phase is key with this list.
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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 04 2020, 21:44

So, I tried the list. The yncarne worked perfect. The combination with so many venoms being all over the place is very powerful. My opponent didn’t to know what to shoot at since an Yncarne could just pop op every where. It kept him of the objectives.
It was a psychologic game.
The only thing that disappointed were the scourges. I think I am going to change them to 2 x mandrakes and a voidraven, sucrifizing one ur-ghul - even though I really really liked two of them. The voidraven Can even get +1 to hit vs other flying units and Can place it self in a nice spot close to something dangerous (after dropping the bomb), die (if the opponent wishes to the yncarne poping up and create havoc in the his diployment zone.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 04 2020, 23:15

I think your list is very interesting, but I would strongly consider making one patrol blackheart. Even if just for vect and maybe lab cunning. And if you decide to take ravagers then for sure the muse. Definitely worth having vect as a threat. It's a game saver/winner.

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 01:23

I have been concidering that my self. I have been playing with vect and he Can be a game changer. I could make the yncarne patrol Black heart and move the venom to another patrol but will the Black heart warriors get the flayed skulls re-Roll 1’s when ridding in a flayed skull venom?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 03:46

The blackheart don't get the reroll ones, but having a venom or two that are black heart is ok. The extra durability is always nice.

Vect is always great to have in your back pocket.

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 11:34

I could make the Yncarne patrol to Black Heart.

Who should be the Warlord thought?

Drazhar's awesome.
The Yncarne's terrible.
The Archon's debatable.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 12:50

Drazahar. rerolling all wounds gives you multiple shots at rolling that 6.

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 12:53

Yes, Drazhar's is awesome. I just wanted to make sure I dont oversee something with the Archon.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 15:47

When I look at your list, you can easily convert it to one battalion rather than 3 patrols.

This allows you to drop one Archon and free up points for something else (like slyth that you're considering). That does preclude you from taking one of the patrols as blackheart that it looks like you're now considering.

You'd also have to drop either one squad of mandrakes or one squad of incubi (or combine the 2 min squads into one max squad)
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 06 2020, 08:30

Thanks for the advice but I like having 4 elites. It gives me the MSU playstyle that allows more options for the yncarne to intervene with.
Black heart (vect) is very nice to have but I need more games to make up my mind as in the last two games I didn’t miss it. Next game is wednesday.
An Update Will follow.
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08 2020, 09:53

Oh my! The game last night was savage. I played vs Aeldari and needless to say The Yncarne was amazing, healing it self on 4+ everytime it killed a model. WOW. Other than that the mandrakes where great as well. They performed as planned. The only point I missed Vect was when my opponent rerolled a charge range, which I wish I could Vect. Maybe I should make the Yncarne’s patrol to a black heart one. I like the fluffy idea of having the Yncarne working for Vect. I will though be moving the venom in the Yncarne’s patrol to the Archons patrol.
The “funny” thing about the Yncarne and MSU style is that the Yncarne can "jump" multiple times in the same turn meaning that it can mess up with the opponents plans several times in his turn. Let me explain: Turn 1: my voidraven flew over 10 guardians droping the bomb (killing 7) and then, using the flayed skull strategem to get +1 to hit flyers, I put 8 wounds on a wave serpent. Next turn my opponent moved forward with his army (to get to objectives since my venoms where on most of them), but concentrated fire on the voidraven, taking it down with the last shooting of his army. Then the Yncarne turned up and piled into a heavy support team, killing them and threating an objective in my opponent’s deployment zone. In my next turn, the Yncarne charged and killed an empty wave serpent and the rest of the guardians taking the objective. Then my opponent had to fall back with some units to threat the Yncarne and retake the objective. In his shooting phase though he shot and killed a venom somewhere else where on the board my army was not so well represented. Then my Yncarne “jumped” again taking the venom’s place. So now, the units that falled back to threat the Yncarne and to take the objective where to far away to threat anything else. The Yncarne threatened now another part of the board, changing my opponent’s plans.  In my opponents fight phase, he killed my Ur-ghoul on my back field, that my Yncarne jump to, messing with my opponent’s plans again and being able to remove any threat in my back field.
The Yncarne has really the power to manoeuvre on another level messing with opponent’ s plans. It is easy for my army to exploit that and at the same time it puts pressure on the opponent to prioritise and be very careful about the order he is killing my small units in, in all phases of the turn.
MVP of the game other than the Yncarne was the blast pistols. Going from 1 to 2 dark light weapons per venom with 19 in movement (threat range of 25”) is amazing. Not forgetting the +1 to hit flying things stratagem, (there are a lot of flying things now days). I don’t miss the ravengers yet. But I really want to try this army vs marines.
Any thoughts, ideas or experiences vs marines? How do you think this army would perform vs marines?  See any strengths or weaknesses vs marines?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 13 2020, 08:06

I think marines will be tough for this list for it's lack of dmg2 weapons. Disintegrator ravagers and dark technomancer venoms will probably be very useful. Techno venoms sre pretty nice to have for shooting marines not in cover. Wounding with venoms on 3s and doing 2dmg is pretty good.

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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 13 2020, 19:39

Im still not sold on those DT venoms, with so many 2+ saves they lack Ap so abdly imo
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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 13 2020, 20:59

Well, I still need to play marines to see (or even Necrons ). Ignore light cover goes a long way. I haven’t seen the new marines. Do they have a lot of 2+ saves? I thought they had 3+ (mostly).
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2020, 12:16

In 9th there is so much cover on the table taht most of time they do get the 2+ in my experience so well
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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 14 2020, 15:20

Thats why my 9 ignoring cover venoms Can do some damage. I suppose.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 18 2020, 09:18

@Swordxart wrote:
Im still not sold on those DT venoms, with so many 2+ saves they lack Ap so abdly imo


6 Wounds on 3+ are 2 wounds. At D1
6 Wounds on 2+ are 1 wounds. At D2
Nothing change if the SM is in cover. But when he is not, there's a huge difference. And usually there's always both Hexrifles and Ossefactors on top of them, both with +1D and wound).
You can consider a custom Kabal too: 6+++ rerolling 1s and +3" movement. You get the major buffs from both BH amd FL.

Otherwise, why not Wychcult? It is amazing with Yncarne, you're going to charge anyway, no-escape its annoying and there are almost 3 Wychcults that are good in 9th:

Cursed Blade, because S4 it's good
Slashing Impact+ToS/Berserker Fugure, both of them dish some additional damage.
Acrobatic Display, this is the secret cherry of the 9th imho. Where every StormShiled becamed 4++, we can have all.our Wyches (and Succubus) at 3++ in melee. And most of it, we got 4++ on Venoms when they're stuck in melee (and why they shouldn't?) against Shooting pistols/Veichles.

If you like the idea of 3x3 Reavers units for Secondary Objectives, distractions and (most of it) free teleports for the Yncarne, I would propose RedGrief too.
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Swordxart
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 18 2020, 16:58

@Cerve wrote:
@Swordxart wrote:
Im still not sold on those DT venoms, with so many 2+ saves they lack Ap so abdly imo


6 Wounds on 3+ are 2 wounds. At D1
6 Wounds on 2+ are 1 wounds. At D2
Nothing change if the SM is in cover. But when he is not, there's a huge difference. And usually there's always both Hexrifles and Ossefactors on top of them, both with +1D and wound).
You can consider a custom Kabal too: 6+++ rerolling 1s and +3" movement. You get the major buffs from both BH amd FL.

Otherwise, why not Wychcult? It is amazing with Yncarne, you're going to charge anyway, no-escape its annoying and there are almost 3 Wychcults that are good in 9th:

Cursed Blade, because S4 it's good
Slashing Impact+ToS/Berserker Fugure, both of them dish some additional damage.
Acrobatic Display, this is the secret cherry of the 9th imho. Where every StormShiled becamed 4++, we can have all.our Wyches (and Succubus) at 3++ in melee. And most of it, we got 4++ on Venoms when they're stuck in melee (and why they shouldn't?) against Shooting pistols/Veichles.

If you like the idea of 3x3 Reavers units for Secondary Objectives, distractions and (most of it) free teleports for the Yncarne, I would propose RedGrief too.

I did not say anything about wych cults or whatever u just listed, i only talked about dt venoms.
With 10 shots per venom u will always deal yourself 1 mortal if unlucky even 2 on 6 wounds i just dont think its good to take just bc of poison not having any ap, so dealing 2 wounds to a marine and getting one on your venom is imo not a good exchange.
I think dt raiders are much more worth, and i pair them with grots atm.
All your points are valid, but many are quite a different topic so well
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Triple Kabal with Yncarne   Triple Kabal with Yncarne I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 18 2020, 17:59

@Swordxart wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
@Swordxart wrote:
Im still not sold on those DT venoms, with so many 2+ saves they lack Ap so abdly imo


6 Wounds on 3+ are 2 wounds. At D1
6 Wounds on 2+ are 1 wounds. At D2
Nothing change if the SM is in cover. But when he is not, there's a huge difference. And usually there's always both Hexrifles and Ossefactors on top of them, both with +1D and wound).
You can consider a custom Kabal too: 6+++ rerolling 1s and +3" movement. You get the major buffs from both BH amd FL.

Otherwise, why not Wychcult? It is amazing with Yncarne, you're going to charge anyway, no-escape its annoying and there are almost 3 Wychcults that are good in 9th:

Cursed Blade, because S4 it's good
Slashing Impact+ToS/Berserker Fugure, both of them dish some additional damage.
Acrobatic Display, this is the secret cherry of the 9th imho. Where every StormShiled becamed 4++, we can have all.our Wyches (and Succubus) at 3++ in melee. And most of it, we got 4++ on Venoms when they're stuck in melee (and why they shouldn't?) against Shooting pistols/Veichles.

If you like the idea of 3x3 Reavers units for Secondary Objectives, distractions and (most of it) free teleports for the Yncarne, I would propose RedGrief too.

I did not say anything about wych cults or whatever u just listed, i only talked about dt venoms.
With 10 shots per venom u will always deal yourself 1 mortal if unlucky even 2 on 6 wounds i just dont think its good to take just bc of poison not having any ap, so dealing 2 wounds to a marine and getting one on your venom is imo not a good exchange.
I think dt raiders are much more worth, and i pair them with grots atm.
All your points are valid, but many are quite a different topic so well

Don't forget MasterMutagens. With 12 shots, two autowounds, other six hits splitted in 2 weapons.
Wound on 3+, other 4 wounds, one 1. So with double Cannons you're getting 1 mortalwound.

If you don't buy it (which is the right choice) you're gaining less than 1 MW on yourself. A good math for SIX wounds at D2.

Then we have any Gravis armour with Fnp6+++, that is good against damage 1 and 3, but kinda useless against damage 2. If you shoot with Raiders, he will prevent your D3 with the 6+++, they have 3 wounds per model, you shoot D3, 50% he prevent 1 damage so 2 wounds in, the Gravis remain with 1 W = you're wasting the next 3D shot.
But 2 shots at D2 even if he prevents 1 damage, 3 are in so it's a death Gravis.
And usually both Aggressors and Eliminators are not in cover, for their short range a movement needed.



You were talk about a Venom Spam, and you writed a Kabal spam. You asked if a Venom spam is viable. I think it is, just it is more viable with the DT switch.
But it's a bit boring I know. My personal preferred Venom Spam is the Wychcult one + Yncarne.
I think the Kabal one is the weakness just because your OS troops are embarked, and they're weak on melee range (where both Wyches and MM Wracks can soak more damage). So it's viable, but risky and not solid at all. Just my 2 cents
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