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 Importance of having a Psychic Phase

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Oaka
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PostSubject: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28 2020, 17:21

The new C'tan had some rules previewed today, and it has the Ghaz rule:

Importance of having a Psychic Phase NvUj7kqQSlgqAI9U

If this rule starts popping up more frequently across the various factions, how important do you think it is going to be to ally in psykers to get access to that third damage phase in a turn?

Also previewed, GW seems to think changing D6 damage to D3+3 against Vehicles represents a unit that is tuned to fight vehicles.  This could bode well for lance weapons in the future, as this rule would seem to capture that.

Importance of having a Psychic Phase OegsoLs5KnUsWgcj

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28 2020, 17:44

Yvraine is the best choice, at present. She has a Smite like power, and Smite. She doesn't take away Obsessions, and doesn't require an Ynnari detachment. But, she will never be at full potential in a Drukhari army, because we have no Psykers. Smite being errata'd to be once per Pysker also hurts.

Alternatives we presently possess include Slashing Impact, Grav-Talons, Void Mines, Eviscerating Flyby, and Dark Harvest in the Movement or Charge phases.

btw, this is a terrible rule. Like, super cynically crafted to give unnatural longevity. I can't believe i'm saying this, but i feel bad for Tau. It also forces my hand into taking Slashing Impact/Test of Skill, when i'd rather Berserk Fugue/Test of Skill. It will only get more common as time goes on.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28 2020, 19:00

Also, big shoutout to any out of phase effects that allow you to hurt the enemy. Off the top of my head, Failure Is Not An Option.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28 2020, 19:16

Regarding the psychic phase, it seems noteworthy that the new Necron RP mechanic now gives zero protection against psychic attacks. If a Necron is killed in the psychic phase, it's just killed outright and can never reanimate.

@False Son wrote:

btw, this is a terrible rule.  Like, super cynically crafted to give unnatural longevity.

Agreed.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 29 2020, 04:21

[quote="Soulless Samurai"]Regarding the psychic phase, it seems noteworthy that the new Necron RP mechanic now gives zero protection against psychic attacks. If a Necron is killed in the psychic phase, it's just killed outright and can never reanimate.

So true! Damn true! I intend on building a future Thousand Son Army....it will be a joy to destroy those Necrons and watch them stay dead!
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 29 2020, 15:52

The Character protection in addition to the cap'ed damage will hurt, but we do have a lot of tools to deal with a C'Tan. Shoot it twice with splinter, then charge in with some wracks and the thing is gone. 3 x3 damage and she is done like dinner.

I am also not too happy about this rule making it into the game. Ghaz is one thing (slow, only 1 per army, very expensive, no Character protection), this is not as restricted.

Now, I will be one of the first to laud a similar rule getting added to our Talos/Chronos (max 4 damage per phase would probably not break the game). I guess that makes me a hypocrite, but what else is new Razz
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 03:58

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Regarding the psychic phase, it seems noteworthy that the new Necron RP mechanic now gives zero protection against psychic attacks. If a Necron is killed in the psychic phase, it's just killed outright and can never reanimate.

Our tricks in the Movement and Charge also circumvent RP. Models lost to Morale Test failure or Attrition Tests also cannot roll.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 13:00

Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 13:46

Didnt notice the 3+ save in addition to the 4++ and Character protection. This guy is going to be difficult to remove.

At least we get to do damage in the CC phase. Tau will have a "fun" time XD
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 15:24

@amishprn86 wrote:
Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

Maybe some people are like me and hate special characters. Razz

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 17:26

@amishprn86 wrote:
Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

Mandatory 120 point HQs piss me off. I can get a Drukhari HQ and a MSU with upgrades for that cost. Yvraine is a good Psyker, no doubt. But, rules like this really annoy me. Drukhari, Tau and Necrons already have too few anti-Psyker options, now we're being nudged into taking Psykers just to get around Necron rules.

BTW, where is our assassin model? Aren't we supposed to be Sci-Fi Dark Elves?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 18:41

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

Maybe some people are like me and hate special characters. Razz

Its either that or CP , other units you my not want and no Raiding Force.
Personally 120pts with raiding force for a named character is so much better, at least we get that option.


@False Son wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

Mandatory 120 point HQs piss me off.  I can get a Drukhari HQ and a MSU with upgrades for that cost.  Yvraine is a good Psyker, no doubt.  But, rules like this really annoy me.  Drukhari, Tau and Necrons already have too few anti-Psyker options, now we're being nudged into taking Psykers just to get around Necron rules.

BTW, where is our assassin model?  Aren't we supposed to be Sci-Fi Dark Elves?

But it is not "Mandatory", sure you can deal 3 more wounds a phase per turn, but its not mandatory.

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 01:06

That C'Tan is good and has some nifty rules, don't get me wrong. But, if he only has a 3+ save, he is trash against us. Even if we can only do 3 wounds a phase, our poison will dominate him. Yeah he will regain some wounds, but lets be real, we don't have to worry about killing him. We need to kill the Necron chaff anyway to get to him so it's a win win.
I'm not too worried about this guy. The new RP on warriors and Immortals though does worry me
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 01:18

You can also melee him, Really once he is at 6 wounds left he should die that turn.

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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 11:22

When I include a psycher, it's primarily for Deny the Witch, not even for the psychic powers. Although naturally, if I have a psycher, I will use those powers.
I often play a detachment of murderclowns with my dark space-elf-pirates, and then it's the Shadowseer. If I don't include clowns, I'll put Yvraine in a Drukhari detachment.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 15:32

i think you guys overestimate our ability to take this thing down...
IMO as with all the other crap flying around out there the best choice unfortunately, till we get our codex, is to ignore him and focus on speed and objectives

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 16:48

I wish we knew something regarding its point cost. Even a power level would give us an idea.

For the last few editions, we murdered C'Tan with ease. I think 150 points is the break point, where if its less than that we will have trouble, but more than that and we shouldent worry too much. 8" movement and 12" range would mean it has the same issue that every other C'Tan has, mobility.

Definitely dont want to charge that with Grots/Talos, unless we are pretty confident we can kill it before it swings. Luckily it will hate our Wracks, which most of us are taking to hold forward points already.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 17:02

@DevilDoll wrote:
i think you guys overestimate our ability to take this thing down...
IMO as with all the other crap flying around out there the best choice unfortunately, till we get our codex, is to ignore him and focus on speed and objectives

Sadly you are right!
Luckily it has relatively slow movement and short range, so should not be that hard to evade him
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 20:28

I have a feeling it will be around 200 points. HQs are weirdly low cost across the board. It having 9 wounds and being a Character is also something of which i am critical. A real make or break will be seeing if the Void Dragon has additional rules to do things beyond throw or stab with it's spear.

This thing is going to be a headache for Venom runners.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 20:38

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Why ally? We have Yvarine and the Yncarne.

Maybe some people are like me and hate special characters. Razz

Its either that or CP , other units you my not want and no Raiding Force.
Personally 120pts with raiding force for a named character is so much better, at least we get that option.

Perhaps I'd be more charitable if I didn't completely despise Yvraine's model.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 22:10

@fisheyes wrote:
I wish we knew something regarding its point cost. Even a power level would give us an idea.

For the last few editions, we murdered C'Tan with ease. I think 150 points is the break point, where if its less than that we will have trouble, but more than that and we shouldent worry too much. 8" movement and 12" range would mean it has the same issue that every other C'Tan has, mobility.

Definitely dont want to charge that with Grots/Talos, unless we are pretty confident we can kill it before it swings. Luckily it will hate our Wracks, which most of us are taking to hold forward points already.

Grots can ignore the invul with MW's and with a RR wounds strat a unit over 3 should be able (really with both profiles) deal 3 wounds.

You only melee when it was 3 or less wounds left on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 16:32

@fisheyes wrote:
I wish we knew something regarding its point cost. Even a power level would give us an idea.

My information isn't 1st-hand, so I can't link you to the page, but apparently someone on Facebook who got their codex early has leaked the cost of the Void Dragon at 350pts.


Oh, also, not really pertinent to this thread, but apparently QS is now '5++ and ignore wound rolls of 1-3'. So I guess we won't be swapping out Disintegrators any time soon. Rolling Eyes

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 20:31

There was a big post with 15 or so leaks, but sadly he said "A friend of a friend with the book", as soon as someone says things like that with no pics, then you should just assume its fake even if it is true.

I'll wait the 8 more days.

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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 17:16

So all the C'Tans are 350 points.

But they also regain 1 wound each turn. You would need to shoot it 3 times, then finish it off with a round of CC to kill it (if you didnt bring Reavers to do a few MW during a movement phase).

I hear that the Nightbringer can even turn off invulnerable saves. That isnt going to be fun...
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Importance of having a Psychic Phase   Importance of having a Psychic Phase I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05 2020, 17:44

@fisheyes wrote:
So all the C'Tans are 350 points.

But they also regain 1 wound each turn. You would need to shoot it 3 times, then finish it off with a round of CC to kill it (if you didnt bring Reavers to do a few MW during a movement phase).

I hear that the Nightbringer can even turn off invulnerable saves. That isnt going to be fun...

In fact, the Nightbringer has a weapon that ignores both Invulnerable saves *and* FNP.

Coven beware!


Aside, I look at the Psychomancer and think to myself 'man, that seems like exactly the sort of thing Dark Eldar should be able to do'.

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