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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 18 2020, 17:16

Yeah we lost Lance but melta didn't lose melta, give Lances something.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 18 2020, 19:30

@fisheyes wrote:
Getting back on topic, I would be happy for a point cut instead of a weapon power increase. Damage 3+D3 may be too powerful for our Lances, and there is no way they are increasing the Damage of our Dissies (too good at Anti Tank)

Eh, I think 8th already did the whole point-cut thing.

Personally, I'd like to see something a bit more interesting. We're meant to be fragile, sure, but we're also meant to be elite warriors, with technology so advanced it boarders on magic.

How is that represented on the table?

Er... I guess they have WS3+ BS3+.

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Darklord
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 09:53

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see something a bit more interesting. We're meant to be fragile, sure, but we're also meant to be elite warriors, with technology so advanced it boarders on magic.
Since I started DE, I often feel we have the pain and others have the power.

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

How is that represented on the table?  
Yesterday I had my third V9 battle in 1000pts against Necron.
Like the first one against Craftworld, during their first shooting phase I was crushed by a mobile firepower helped by abilities, psychic powers and stratagem that we have not.
In pratice, this is done too many S6 shoots with rerolls for a poor 5+ invulnerable save and simple -1 to hit.  

At this point, as an advanced technology I 'd like to have a better Night Shield with
Invulnerable save of 4+ against ranged weapons, or at least 5+ increase to 4+ if range is more than 12".
If all army are on the same bloodriver, we are clinging to a lifebuoy while others are on rafts or boats...


In meantime our futur codex and new arsenal (perhaps unchanged at 90%)  I'll have to beguin battles by imposing more shadows on table.



@fisheyes wrote:
The Blood God does not care from where the blood flows, so long as it flows. Slaanash seems to be the same regarding those extreme emotions.

I personally was quite unhappy when the 8th DE codex dropped and everyone was saying how OP DE were (with all the Little Johnnys jumping on the band wagon).
For V8 rules our codex was good but following ones were better.

@fisheyes wrote:
I prefer the pessimism to the exuberance, although I am sure Slaanash doesnt care Razz
Geuweu too!  Rolling Eyes

@fisheyes wrote:
Getting back on topic, I would be happy for a point cut instead of a weapon power increase. Damage 3+D3 may be too powerful for our Lances, and there is no way they are increasing the Damage of our Dissies (too good at Anti Tank)
I don't know what They have planned as "cool" wargear for us.
But with Dissies increased to 25pts or Splintercanon to 15pts, they must give us something or at his price it is daylight robbery.


Last edited by Darklord on Mon Sep 21 2020, 10:09; edited 1 time in total
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 10:00

@Darklord wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see something a bit more interesting. We're meant to be fragile, sure, but we're also meant to be elite warriors, with technology so advanced it boarders on magic.
Since I started DE, I often feel we have the pain and others have the power.

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

How is that represented on the table?  
Yesterday I had my third V9 battle in 1000pts against Necron.
Like the first one against Craftworld, during their first shooting phase I was crushed by a mobile firepower helped by abilities, psychic powers and stratagem that we have not.
In pratice, this is done too many S6 shoots with rerolls for a poor 5+ invulnerable save and simple -1 to hit.  

At this point, as an advanced technology I 'd like to have a better Night Shield with
Invulnerable save of 4+ against ranged weapons, or at least 5+ increase to 4+ if range is more than 12".
If all army are on the same bloodriver, we are clinging to a lifebuoy while others are on rafts or boats...

I have a similar suggestion - what if DE vehicles, Jetbikes and Jump Infantry gain a 5++ or +1 to their existing Invulnerable save (to a maximum of 3++) until the start of their next turn if they move more than half their movement speed?

It might give some help to Reavers, Scourges and Hellions (and any Winged/Jetbike Infantry, hint hint, GW), whilst also encouraging the army to stay mobile.

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Darklord
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 11:17

Yes, We must remain a mobile army.

In fact I would like all rules, abilities or stratagem from drukhari encourage us to move closer our target.
For example "Power from pain" will give us bonus not with increase of round number but with reduction of range.
Or we win a stratagem it will give us rerolls or more attachs/shoots if we are nearby.

I imagine our warriors begin more powerful if they can view fear from eyes of their prey.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 12:44

Played a game with DT for the first time, and WOW does that add a lot to our gunboats. Even a Dissie Raider getting 3 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, AP-3 and Damage flat 3 is exactly what I want for our AT platforms.

Getting Reapers to wound on 3s and damage 1+D6 meant that they actually wrecked stuff. That +1 to wound is NASTY.

I would not be opposed to getting more +1 to wound on our weapons. Finally I felt like I was playing with the Glass Cannon that DE are supposed to be.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 15:05

@fisheyes wrote:
Played a game with DT for the first time, and WOW does that add a lot to our gunboats. Even a Dissie Raider getting 3 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, AP-3 and Damage flat 3 is exactly what I want for our AT platforms.

Getting Reapers to wound on 3s and damage 1+D6 meant that they actually wrecked stuff. That +1 to wound is NASTY.

I would not be opposed to getting more +1 to wound on our weapons. Finally I felt like I was playing with the Glass Cannon that DE are supposed to be.

Agree. haven't played myself yet with DT, but I've been watching a bunch of Skari's battle reports, and it certainly seems a HUGE impact on venoms as well.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21 2020, 15:24

I've done 6-10 DT raiders many times, its a little swingy but can hit very hard, layer it with Wracks and Grots, Drazhar and some Mandrakes to get secondaries and it works well. Its my Competitive list for sure.

Sadly i played it all of 8th from when our PA came out and now i am bored of it.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28 2020, 14:48

Keep your expectatives low, or you'll be too negative/frustrated even after getting decent rules for our weapons.

I can expect to get a bonus to damage on poison weapons against non-vehicle units. If we're lucky, D2 on rifles and carbines, D3 on cannons. If not, then just D2 on cannons. AP. makes no sense in poison. According to the lore, splinter ammunition is meant to cause incapacitating pain (damage), not to pierce through armor. This would make our weapons more useful, except against smaller, easier prey like guards (which we prefer to kill with our blades).

Incubi klaives deserve +2 S or damage bonus.

Dark lances deserve 1d3+3 damage, if not a S boost or special rule.

Disintegrators are fine, they're just too expensive. Maybe they'll get two profiles in the new codex, as they used to have.

Archite Glaive needs D2 at least. Come on.

12" in liquifiers is to be expected.

Some improvement to coven CC weapons, in order to give some variety and specialization, at least. I'm not even asking for.their rules from 5th edition.

Agonizers, also D2 against non-vehicle units, for the same reason as poison weapons.

Grotesques, D2 on their cleavers. They're monstruous, after all.

Do you agree?


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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 29 2020, 16:00

Yup, that is roughly what we are all thinking.

Damage 3+D3 seems to be the new hottness, so pretty good chance we will get that too. Not sure if it will make Lance Ravagers worth it, but could at least make us consider them. Assuming we are not taking Reapers in our Coven HS slots (which GW could accomplish by nerfing the Reaper into the ground, which is likely)

EDIT:
They released more info for the Necrons, showing how their Chapter Tactics tie into their Combat Doctrines. I never noticed how similar these progressing Doctrines are to our PfP table. One could assume we will get a more powerful PfP table with our new Codex?
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 29 2020, 20:31

Or the ability to secretly assign what we get each round like the neurons
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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 09:01

I think that we need an overall boost to our survivavility, in addition to what you already said about our weapons.

Not saying more W or more T, but something more Aeldari... we don't feel like Glass Cannons anymore. If we stay the same, we need a great boost in Killiness, wich I don't think we are getting.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 09:59

@Denegaar wrote:
I think that we need an overall boost to our survivavility, in addition to what you already said about our weapons.

Not saying more W or more T, but something more Aeldari... we don't feel like Glass Cannons anymore. If we stay the same, we need a great boost in Killiness, wich I don't think we are getting.

What do you think would be appropriate for us?

I was wondering about a -1 to hit on all units. However, the 'no stacking' rule seems to largely kill that. Plus it means there's no way to differentiate Mandrakes and Venoms from everything else.

Maybe a native 5++ to represent fast reflexes? But then we're treading not only on the toes of Mandrakes once again but now also on the toes of Coven units. I suppose the latter could have an improved FNP instead?

Otherwise, maybe just improve our FNP save on all units?

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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 10:57

It's not easy to think about how to do it and not break the faction altogether, I think the full Aeldari race should have a "racial" way to avoid death, being agility, fast reflexes or whatever.

-1 to be hit hand raise the cap to -2 would be nice. I don't know if too strong or not... but the T3 5+ save was only fine years ago, when the game was less killy than now...

Making enemies reroll hit rolls of 6 would be cool too, but GW is trying to avoid rerolling much.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 14:43

Add a rule for vehicles, reavers, scourges and hellions. The faster you move, the more you have invul save.

0-4 '' : 5++ from the shield (no invul for reaver)
5-8'' : 4++
9 and more'' :3++
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 15:40

Maybe put our FNP at least back to 5+. In 5th ed, it was 4+ Razz
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 15:45

@krayd wrote:
Maybe put our FNP at least back to 5+. In 5th ed, it was 4+ Razz

It's especially weird seeing Coven units with just 6+ FNP.

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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 17:06

Yeah, Wracks are tortured Aelves, without skin or face... so 6+ FNP feels... not right. Maybe they should have a 6+ armor and then a 4+ FNP, it would be more "real", but I guess it's the other way around so they could make it work with Inured to Suffering.

The faster you move the harder to hit or the better the save is a great idea, love it. Reavers and Hellionis totally need an invulnerable save, at least in melee like the Wyches...
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Swordxart
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 18:05

I never understood why Reavers dont get any kind of Invul safe it makes no sense.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30 2020, 18:44

All coven should just have a flat +1 to Inure of Pain rule.
All Wyches should have Advance and Charge.
All Kabals should have +1PFP units without PFP get Inure of Pain.

Red Grief needs to now be Reavers and Hellions gain No escape, and all units with Fly gain +" to movement. (it is the go fast and fly army that is supposed to be reavers, hellions, and raiders full of wyches).

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 16:52

Did they say that the revised weapon profiles would all get released with the new Marine Codex, or are they going to wait for the individual army Codecies?

I cant recall off the top of my head. IIRC the Marine Codex should be out in the next 2 months or so.
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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 17:11

The SM Codex is out the 10th of October. So we'll get new PSwords in a week or so.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 01 2020, 20:30

So excited. Cursed Blade getting more attractive all the time.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 15:24

I don't think that getting 1 S4 (S5 with Cursed Blade) power sword per unit is going to make a *huge* amount of difference.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 02 2020, 16:38

It does when the alternative is an Agonizer.
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