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Darklord
Hellion
Darklord

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PostSubject: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 20:30


weapons-and-wargear-updates

Today we have the list of SM weapons uptades.

Power sword is not a verygreat the change but I take it.
Hekatrix, Arena Champion or Helliarch could have 3A S5 AP-3 (and without obsessions bonus).

Damage D6+2 within mid range for heatlance is the second news we could be sure.

But there were many questions about our quite average arsenal :
What will be the future D2 weapon? Only one or more?
Will Liquifator have range 12"?
Will Klaives stay S+1?
Will we have our first S10 ranged weapon?

I really hope it will be more than two or three consolation gift...

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 20:41

For me, it is really the poison type weapons that i would want them to have a massive overhaul.
Not in the AP department (note that it would not hurt) but more like a real poison would act.
I don't know, something like giving some debuff to the opponent's models, like -2 on move/charge/advance if struck by poison weapon until the user next command phase, -1 to hit or wound i don't know.....but you see the picture....
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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 20:59

Don't forget the Beastmaster, he can take a PSword too. Great.

Heat Lance is not changing yet... We'll have to wait for the Codex.

Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.
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Glass Battleaxe
Hellion
Glass Battleaxe

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 21:04

@Denegaar wrote:
Don't forget the Beastmaster, he can take a PSword too. Great.

The Power Sword for Beastmaster was an index option that has since been moved to Legends - he is now stuck with an Agoniser, and that's it.
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 21:08

@Kalmah wrote:
For me, it is really the poison type weapons that i would want them to have a massive overhaul.
Not in the AP department (note that it would not hurt) but more like a real poison would act.
I don't know, something like giving some debuff to the opponent's models, like -2 on move/charge/advance if struck by poison weapon until the user next command phase, -1 to hit or wound i don't know.....but you see the picture....

Too hard to keep track of all debufs. I don't care if it's just damage, just make it better.
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The Strange Dark One
Wych
The Strange Dark One

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Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 14 2020, 22:13

@dumpeal wrote:
@Kalmah wrote:
For me, it is really the poison type weapons that i would want them to have a massive overhaul.
Not in the AP department (note that it would not hurt) but more like a real poison would act.
I don't know, something like giving some debuff to the opponent's models, like -2 on move/charge/advance if struck by poison weapon until the user next command phase, -1 to hit or wound i don't know.....but you see the picture....

Too hard to keep track of all debufs. I don't care if it's just damage, just make it better.

I agree, this is something that works in a video game but I really don't want to deal with this kind of book-keeping. It's fine on special weapons, but not ordinary ones.

Usually, the simplest rules are the best ones. Imagine Poison 2.0: Add +1 to-wound against non-vehicles. And give S3 to Splinter Rifles and S4 to Splinter Cannons/Pods. Some weapons like Stinger Pistols get +2. Easy.

As for the Klaives, the thing I'd like to see the most is D2 (losing Lethal Precision). And give Hellions AP-2 and D1 in return.
This would be more suitable for either of their roles... it could be so easy.
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 08:42

Splinter fire already wounds on 4+, and I think that's fine. But it seriously needs armor penetration.

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Darklord
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 10:46

The problem is not poison's system.
In first it is the lack of good bonus to help this type of weapons (Stratageme to add AP1d3 should be good). We are limited to reroll 1 or add 1 hit on a 6.
About Obsessions Luckily we have Dark Technomancer.

In second 6+ to bless VEHICULES and now TITANESQUE is badly compensate by some S8-9 ranged weapons and too rare melees weapons.
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 13:45

@Darklord wrote:
The problem is not poison's system.

I disagree. Wounding on 4s with no AP and D1 is abysmal for a glass-cannon army. And it's only made worse by the fact that most of our special and heavy weapons are stuck using the exact same statline, just with different rates of fire.

Can you imagine if Marines were stuck with a load of basic Bolter profiles for their special and heavy weapons?

And we haven't even touched on how atrocious our poison melee weapons are. Take a look at GSCs sometime. The Sanctus Bio-Dagger alone basically encompasses the best parts of every weapon in the Haemonculus' arsenal. It's a Venom Blade, with the AP of an Agoniser, the Damage of the Electrocorrosive whip, and grants an extra attack like Scissorhands. That's the sort of thing we should be wielding, yet instead we're stuck lightly tickling our enemies. Evil or Very Mad

Anyway, given how prevalent Poison is for us, I absolutely don't want it ""fixed"" with a strat. Not least because this is one of the absolute worst aspects of the whole stratagem mechanic. I don't want to have to pay CPs so that a single unit will remember how their guns work.

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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 14:53

@Darklord wrote:

weapons-and-wargear-updates

Today we have the list of SM weapons uptades.

Power sword is not a verygreat the change but I take it.
Hekatrix, Arena Champion or Helliarch could have 3A S5 AP-3 (and without obsessions bonus).

Damage D6+2 within mid range for heatlance is the second news we could be sure.

But there were many questions about our quite average arsenal :
What will be the future D2 weapon? Only one or more?
Will Liquifator have range 12"?
Will Klaives stay S+1?
Will we have our first S10 ranged weapon?

I really hope it will be more than two or three consolation gift...


Seems my prophecy on T5 units and Heat Lances is coming true. Heat Lances are quickly becoming mandatory with all of the Gravis stuff running around, assuming we get the 2+D6 damage.

Power Sword changes are really interesting to me. It beats the Agonizer until T5 or higher. I can see a place for both, depending on your Obsessions and Drug combinations. I'm thrilled at hurting T3 on 3+. Also happy that it gives Cursed Blade Arena Champions something to do, besides grumble about what could have been. Just wish we could channel our 6th edition Power Axe madness again.

Klaives better change. They've always been Power Swords with +1S. If they get that change Incubi become a real ace unit, able to take on anything on at least a 5+ to wound.
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velaresh
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 15:39


KLAIVES damage 2 and lethal precision extra wounds on a 6s or self wound on a 6 hit.

Maybe disintegrators with Heavy 5 and S6 damage 2 AP -4?

Chronos weapons suck in need of an upgrade-feature change. Maybe one of the weapons fire ignoring line of sigth.

Haywire blasters change them to Assault 3.

The problem with the heatlance is the F6, designed to be useful against side and rear armor. Against R7 and 8 it does not work.

Poison weapons: Ideally, it should wound all infantry at 2s, non-infantry at 4s, and titanic vehicles at 6s +some stratagems to use different types of poisons.

Types of poison for stratagems: a poison that does not allow defensive fire.
another that adds +1 to damage and ap 1.
a poison that halves advancement and charge dice rolls.

Hexrifles: sniper and in a 6s cause 1d3 mortal wounds to the unit.
Oseofactors: mmm.....
Talos Gauntles: Sx2 and Damage 4.
Blades of the Wytches: Ap 1 and extra A.
Liquifers Change to F5 FP 2 or 3 and assault 1d3.
Shreaders: change to auto hit like flammers.
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 15:59

Minor change but Hexrifles are badly in need of being Assault weapons again. Or maybe Rapid Fire?

Really anything except Heavy.

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 16:37

Poison should allow firing on units engaged in CC. They use poison, they should have the antidote to the poison. Make everybody on your strikeforce immune to your own poison and don't care anymore where you are firing.
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 16:45

@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful. Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

Just throwing this out there.
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Denegaar
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 18:04

That's good news, what we need is cool stuff and our weapons at the level of power of the rest of the factions, we can already play the objectives pretty well. So I'm happy with that.
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fisheyes
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 18:20

Did I see the Lascannons go to damage D3+3, or was that a fever dream?

Hard to remember these days, need to stop dropping by the haemonculi flesh-pits
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Kalmah
Kabalite Warrior
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 18:30

@fisheyes wrote:
Did I see the Lascannons go to damage D3+3, or was that a fever dream?

Hard to remember these days, need to stop dropping by the haemonculi flesh-pits



You sure this is not happening since Marijuana is legal in Canada?...... lol! alien
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 19:36

@Dalamar wrote:
@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful.  Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

Frankly, I will believe that Dark Eldar are getting "Lots of cool stuff" when I see them actually get "Lots of cool stuff", rules and all.

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 20:54

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Dalamar wrote:
@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful.  Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

Frankly, I will believe that Dark Eldar are getting "Lots of cool stuff" when I see them actually get "Lots of cool stuff", rules and all.

They said "cool stuff". they never said "good stuff"
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 21:03

@dumpeal wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Dalamar wrote:
@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful.  Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

Frankly, I will believe that Dark Eldar are getting "Lots of cool stuff" when I see them actually get "Lots of cool stuff", rules and all.

They said "cool stuff". they never said "good stuff"

I don't recall Phoenix Rising containing either. Neutral

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 15 2020, 22:38

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Dalamar wrote:
@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful.  Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

Frankly, I will believe that Dark Eldar are getting "Lots of cool stuff" when I see them actually get "Lots of cool stuff", rules and all.

They said "cool stuff". they never said "good stuff"

I don't recall Phoenix Rising containing either. Neutral

We've got a name generator. What can you have cooler than that?
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 16 2020, 00:10

@dumpeal wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Dalamar wrote:
@Denegaar wrote:
Klaive stuff really hurts me. I hope they go to +2S.

So i Was listening to Brad Chester and Sean Nyaden's Monday stream and they were talking the new power weapon profiles and not quite power weapons, when chat asked if Incubi weapons should get more powerful.  Brad "loose lips" Chester, who unfortunately had not been drinking, did not violate his NDA, but did say that he is loving what his Dark Eldar are getting, and they are getting "Lots of cool stuff". while grinning and muttering Incubi.

That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

Frankly, I will believe that Dark Eldar are getting "Lots of cool stuff" when I see them actually get "Lots of cool stuff", rules and all.

They said "cool stuff". they never said "good stuff"

I don't recall Phoenix Rising containing either. Neutral

We've got a name generator. What can you have cooler than that?

When you're right, you're right.

Point withdrawn.

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Darklord
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 16 2020, 08:18

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

I want to think positive but my fear is DE updates will be like the little campfire from Phoenix Rising.

DE are a cool army I like to play, even if since V6-7 they "Lost their good stuff".

The good army style with "lots of good stuff" seems to be to "Supermaris".
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 16 2020, 09:53

@Darklord wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
That sounds exactly like what was said about Phoenix Rising.

I want to think positive but my fear is DE updates will be like the little campfire from Phoenix Rising.

DE are a cool army I like to play, even if since V6-7 they "Lost their good stuff".

I can accept DE not being as well-supported as SMs, but only up to a point.

In the past, GW clearly had limited capacity with regard to new kits. However, they've literally been firing out primaris kits since the beginning of 8th, to the point where they've doubled the entries in what was already the most bloated book in the entire 40k range.

Dark Eldar have spent the last decade gaining absolutely nothing and losing models, units, rules, and wargear left, right and centre. And they didn't gain (or even regain) a single new unit in 8th.

But 9th is a new edition, right? Time finally for a change of pace? No, because what the game really, desperately needs is even more Primaris models.

And yes, I know Necrons also got a big release, but I don't care. And I say this even as someone who plays Necrons. Because Necrons already had a really good range of models. If GW really wanted to expand it, they could have easily waited until later in the edition when other factions had been given much more needed support. Even aside from DE, half the models in the Eldar range are old enough to drink, and Harlequins have just 8 units total.

And while I'd like to carry on for the models and flavour, I'm the sort of person who wants to be able to use those models on the table. And with the current rules I'm just not having fun with them.


Sorry for the rant. As you can probably tell I'm just really fed up at this point.

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: weapons-and-wargear-updates   weapons-and-wargear-updates I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 16 2020, 13:17

@Kalmah, I will neither confirm nor deny this awesome fact about Canada.

Personally, I live in terror of Battle Cannon LRBTs with 3x Heavy Bolters. Those things are going to delete our boats left and right :/
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