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 So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

Posts : 1188
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 14:08

That was an enjoyable trip down memory lane, TY for that guys Smile

The Dissie Ravager is for sure our #1 marine unit.

I have not heard anything for a while on our new Succubus HQ that was being teased a few months back. What happened to it?
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Kalmah
Hellion
Kalmah

Posts : 49
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 15:00

Knowing that you're talking about Lelith......i sure hope she's not an Innari now after following Yvraine to deal with Slaanesh.
I don't think tough, knowing that in the Codex, in the lore, the last line of her backstory clearly states that Vect is happy to have her with the Innari, as if she were a spy for him, and Vect did'nt follow because he have an agenda of his own....

I have a little theory there.....could it happens that Vect try to do a deal with Slaanesh, his sworn enemy, by giving to Slaanesh the souls of every Craftworld and Innari that he can find, thus leaving the Drukari in peace (meaning the return of psychers for Drukhari???) and an alliance with the Chaos Daemons of Slaanesh?
That would be really impressive and a big turn of event!!!
But i know.....i'm a big dreamer Wink
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

Posts : 1177
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Location : Québec

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 17:04

@Kalmah wrote:
Knowing that you're talking about Lelith......i sure hope she's not an Innari now after following Yvraine to deal with Slaanesh.
I don't think tough, knowing that in the Codex, in the lore, the last line of her backstory clearly states that Vect is happy to have her with the Innari, as if she were a spy for him, and Vect did'nt follow because he have an agenda of his own....

I have a little theory there.....could it happens that Vect try to do a deal with Slaanesh, his sworn enemy, by giving to Slaanesh the souls of every Craftworld and Innari that he can find, thus leaving the Drukari in peace (meaning the return of psychers for Drukhari???) and an alliance with the Chaos Daemons of Slaanesh?
That would be really impressive and a big turn of event!!!
But i know.....i'm a big dreamer Wink

Vect SAYS he is happy that Lelith joined the Ynnari. I doubt it is true.
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Kalmah
Hellion
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 17:10

who are you to doubt our dark lord? Wink just joking!
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Archon_91
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Archon_91

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 19:50

Psychic awakening was the perfect time to further that story and introduce psychers into the true kin again, Lady Malys would have been the perfect candidate for this ... but they missed that amazing opportunity and I really doubt they will just give us psychers in the next codex ... if they are going to itll be in a campaign that is PA 2.0 where we actually get a single psycher unit that isn't a special character but can only be taken as single modeland can only use smite ... with its head exploding on a roll of a 1,2 or 3 when it tries to manifest the power ... and if the power is successfully manifested there is a 50% chance that it hits friendly units instead of the enemy ... ... ... sorry for the pessimism but I think we all wanted so so so much more from PA and GW in general
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Sarcron
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Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 20:04

@Archon_91 wrote:
Psychic awakening was the perfect time to further that story and introduce psychers into the true kin again, Lady Malys would have been the perfect candidate for this ... but they missed that amazing opportunity and I really doubt they will just give us psychers in the next codex ... if they are going to itll be in a campaign that is PA 2.0 where we actually get a single psycher unit that isn't a special character but can only be taken as single modeland can only use smite ... with its head exploding on a roll of a 1,2 or 3 when it tries to manifest the power ... and if the power is successfully manifested there is a 50% chance that it hits friendly units instead of the enemy ... ... ... sorry for the pessimism but I think we all wanted so so so much more from PA and GW in general

Then why would we want to use it? And I still don't think deldar should get psykers, that's part of the point of us

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 20:05

@Archon_91 wrote:
Psychic awakening was the perfect time to further that story and introduce psychers into the true kin again, Lady Malys would have been the perfect candidate for this ... but they missed that amazing opportunity and I really doubt they will just give us psychers in the next codex ... if they are going to itll be in a campaign that is PA 2.0 where we actually get a single psycher unit that isn't a special character but can only be taken as single modeland can only use smite ... with its head exploding on a roll of a 1,2 or 3 when it tries to manifest the power ... and if the power is successfully manifested there is a 50% chance that it hits friendly units instead of the enemy ... ... ... sorry for the pessimism but I think we all wanted so so so much more from PA and GW in general

Sounds like a Corsair Psyker. lol!



More seriously, I don't mind DE not having actual psykers, but I wish we had some sort of unit capable of buffing or debuffing units beyond basic auras.

I still maintain that a Mandrake HQ would be great for this role, as Mandrakes have been shown in the fluff to have all manner of weird powers. What's more, as a mercenary unit, it would be available to each of our subfactions.

As usual, I know I'm dreaming with this. After all, if GW were to devote resources to making a model for such, they might only be able to make an extra 10 Primaris HQs this year. Rolling Eyes

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 20:33

where do we sign for a mandrake HQ? cause i'm in!!!
also a new plastic model for Mandrakes wouldnt hurt....but i admit that even in today's standard, they look really bad ass in resin! Even today they are still amongst the greatest looking models.
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 20:45

@Kalmah wrote:
where do we sign for a mandrake HQ?

I wish I knew. Sad


@Kalmah wrote:
also a new plastic model for Mandrakes wouldnt hurt....but i admit that even in today's standard, they look really bad ass in resin! Even today they are still amongst the greatest looking models.

Yeah, in spite of their age, I think the current Mandrake models are some of the nicest in the range.

I even started a project a while back, where many models would be either converted from Mandrakes or made to closely resemble such.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t18875-kabal-of-the-the-undying-shadow

Still, as you say, it would be nice if they were updated - if only to add a little variety to their sculpts (2 identical poses per 5 isn't ideal).

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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 03 2020, 21:07

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

I still maintain that a Mandrake HQ would be great

What, with an ability like "One unit of Drukhari Infantry on foot within 3" of the mandrake HQ at the start of the movement phase may double their move characteristic to represent the mandrake HQ showing them a secret path through the shadow realm. This ability may only be used twice a game"

Sort of like a non-psychic warptime?

No, too powerful. Only every chaos faction ever can use it.. or every eldar unit within range of their spiritseer... Or etc etc etc

No no... we cannot have nice toys like this!

16" moving wyches and 14" moving incubi are much more terrifying than shining spears that can move, advance, move again and charge! (Thats a threat range of 50" in case you were wondering)

Be realistic!

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04 2020, 14:30

Ill add my signature to that list if someone finds out where it is. It would make a lot of sense for us to get a Mandrake HQ that is not locked to Kabal/Cult/Coven.

I feel like its a little un-fluffy that Drazar seems to be on every battlefield these days Razz
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04 2020, 15:39

@fisheyes wrote:
Ill add my signature to that list if someone finds out where it is. It would make a lot of sense for us to get a Mandrake HQ that is not locked to Kabal/Cult/Coven.

I feel like its a little un-fluffy that Drazar seems to be on every battlefield these days Razz

On that note, while not quite as high priority for me personally, I certainly wouldn't object to us getting a generic Incubus HQ.

(An alternative would be to allow Archons to be turned into Incubus HQs by means of armour and weapons, though that might cause some difficulties given how the faction is presently split).


I don't know if I'm just strange in this regard, but I have a general dislike of specific HQ types only being available through special characters.

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04 2020, 18:16

Agreed @Soulless Samurai, I have always hated Special Characters. It really irks me that Tiberius is on 1000's of battlefields across the Galaxy. Who is watching the damn library?!
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Barking Agatha
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Barking Agatha

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04 2020, 18:21

SHADOW LORD

Shadow Walk: At the end of your Movement Phase, remove the Shadow Lord and up to one Infantry unit from the battlefield (friend or foe), and set them up again anywhere on the battlefield (even in engagement range) and within 3" of each other.

Shooting at Shadows: Shadow Lords and Mandrakes can only be wounded in the Shooting Phase on a To Wound roll of 6.


TEMPLE MASTER

Stand Your Ground: Friendly DRUKHARI units within 6" of the Temple Master automatically pass all Morale tests.

Get Up, You Coward: Add +1 to the Inured to Suffering rolls of all friendly DRUKHARI units. You may re-roll all failed Inured to Suffering rolls for units within 6" of the Temple Master.


NB: Yes, I know. But the trick is not to ask for what you want. Ask instead for 5 times what you want, and then compromise down!

Don't overdo it and ask for 10 times what you want, though. Very Happy
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04 2020, 20:15

@fisheyes wrote:
Agreed @Soulless Samurai, I have always hated Special Characters. It really irks me that Tiberius is on 1000's of battlefields across the Galaxy. Who is watching the damn library?!

But you can narratively say its just a small snap shot of the larger battle.

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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 05 2020, 09:39

@amishprn86 wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Agreed @Soulless Samurai, I have always hated Special Characters. It really irks me that Tiberius is on 1000's of battlefields across the Galaxy. Who is watching the damn library?!

But you can narratively say its just a small snap shot of the larger battle.

A thousand snapshots of a thousand battles.
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Dreadblizzaard
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Dreadblizzaard

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 06 2020, 05:01

Just give us Lady Malys back. She was our anti-psychic and just really good from what I remember.

How about a lord that can have access to a sky board, jetbike or wings. Oh, wait, we've already asked for those.

Vect? Just rules, I'll do a conversion.

Well, phooey, this is about space marines. Sorry. We'll never have the toys like them, they're the flag ship, that's why csm don't even stand up to them.

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Scrz
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Scrz

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 08 2020, 21:16

Full disclosure: I own a Leviathan dread. It looks pretty on the shelf. Just kidding I keep it in a box.
I quit 40K during 7th, a couple of months after the Craftworld codex dropped.
I lost all faith in GW being able to write rules that would be fun to play. I got my hopes up a little bit when I heard what they were planning to do with 8th, but it turned out to be the blandest experience I have ever had on the table top. Sure it was not as rage-inducing as the 7th ed. wraith knight or grav spam, but it just was not fun. Simpler. sure. Faster. Sure. But there is no real room for scheming or grand strategies anymore. Everyone just rushes their units up the board and mushes them together in the middle. The scoring system in 9th even managed to make things worse. Now people are running around doing their own personal objectives. It almost feels like two single player games are being played on the same board. Not to mention the immersion breaking book keeping between every round to keep track of all the points. Oh and the part where they removed templates because games will be faster if people stop obsessing about perfectly placing every model in the unit to eliminate losses when they are moving across the board. But then they introduce new coherency rules that forces people to obsess about perfectly placing every model in the unit to eliminate losses when they are moving across the board. No
But I get it. I understand why GW is making these changes. They need to capture the kiddie audience to get a new influx of players, and attention spans are hard to come by. So they dumb everything down.
Admittedly I should be in the target audience because I am pretty dumb, but I like to pretend that I am not, by playing overly complicated tabletop games. Sure Kill team is actually a LOT of fun with the right house rules. But I still have these full armies that I would like to play. And I had an absolute blast playing 40K up until 7th...
So what I and my friends have done is said thanks but no thanks to 9th, said our final good byes to the Primaris ASS-tardes and are playing the edition we had fun with.
How are we doing that I hear no one ask? Simple:
Using the Ruleset for Horus Heresy from Forge world as a basis, we added the allies matrix and the eternal war missions from the original 7th ed. BRB. Armies are selected using the 5th or 6th edition codexes only.
The Horus Heresy rule set is almost a word for word copy of the 7th ed rules, but with a few VERY important changes. The most important being:
-No formations
-Toned down Grav
-No lords of war in games under 2000pts
-Invisibility swapped for a power that gives one enemy unit "hits on 6s"
-Toned down D
and more. Basically, all the fixes that should have been made to fix 7th in stead of scrapping everything and making a game for tweens.

Of course this only works if get all your buddies on board, and you are not one of those people who like to play with random strangers in a local store.

Sure pain tokens are silly, but you get ALL the special characters back AND corsairs are playable.

Now I'm off to create a facebook account so I can order "the strafer" from Ghost miniatures, because Baron Sathonyx is an auto include in most of my lists.
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 08 2020, 23:13

@Scrz wrote:
Full disclosure: I own a Leviathan dread. It looks pretty on the shelf. Just kidding I keep it in a box.
I quit 40K during 7th, a couple of months after the Craftworld codex dropped.
I lost all faith in GW being able to write rules that would be fun to play. I got my hopes up a little bit when I heard what they were planning to do with 8th, but it turned out to be the blandest experience I have ever had on the table top. Sure it was not as rage-inducing as the 7th ed. wraith knight or grav spam, but it just was not fun. Simpler. sure. Faster. Sure. But there is no real room for scheming or grand strategies anymore. Everyone just rushes their units up the board and mushes them together in the middle. The scoring system in 9th even managed to make things worse. Now people are running around doing their own personal objectives. It almost feels like two single player games are being played on the same board. Not to mention the immersion breaking book keeping between every round to keep track of all the points. Oh and the part where they removed templates because games will be faster if people stop obsessing about perfectly placing every model in the unit to eliminate losses when they are moving across the board. But then they introduce new coherency rules that forces people to obsess about perfectly placing every model in the unit to eliminate losses when they are moving across the board. No
But I get it. I understand why GW is making these changes. They need to capture the kiddie audience to get a new influx of players, and attention spans are hard to come by. So they dumb everything down.
Admittedly I should be in the target audience because I am pretty dumb, but I like to pretend that I am not, by playing overly complicated tabletop games. Sure Kill team is actually a LOT of fun with the right house rules. But I still have these full armies that I would like to play. And I had an absolute blast playing 40K up until 7th...
So what I and my friends have done is said thanks but no thanks to 9th, said our final good byes to the Primaris ASS-tardes and are playing the edition we had fun with.
How are we doing that I hear no one ask? Simple:
Using the Ruleset for Horus Heresy from Forge world as a basis, we added the allies matrix and the eternal war missions from the original 7th ed. BRB. Armies are selected using the 5th or 6th edition codexes only.
The Horus Heresy rule set is almost a word for word copy of the 7th ed rules, but with a few VERY important changes. The most important being:
-No formations
-Toned down Grav
-No lords of war in games under 2000pts
-Invisibility swapped for a power that gives one enemy unit "hits on 6s"
-Toned down D
and more. Basically, all the fixes that should have been made to fix 7th in stead of scrapping everything and making a game for tweens.

Of course this only works if get all your buddies on board, and you are not one of those people who like to play with random strangers in a local store.

Sure pain tokens are silly, but you get ALL the special characters back AND corsairs are playable.

Now I'm off to create a facebook account so I can order "the strafer" from Ghost miniatures, because Baron Sathonyx is an auto include in most of my lists.

Formations were great. I miss my loved Dark Artisan. I remind the face of fear and incredulity of my Tau friend when I deep striked it close to his gunline, get shotted at by his whole army and survived.
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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09 2020, 00:10

@dumpeal wrote:

Formations were great. I miss my loved Dark Artisan. I remind the face of fear and incredulity of my Tau friend when I deep striked it close to his gunline, get shotted at by his whole army and survived.

Dark Artisan was indeed great. It opened up a whole new option which was very fluffy but also impossible to do normally.

In many ways, it was probably one of the best designed Formations in the game.


However, that was little consolation for anyone wanting to use Kabal or Cult (or Incubi or Mandrake etc.) units, as they got no Formations whatsoever. And even Coven didn't get anything even close to the super-Formations that followed.

All that said, I do with GW wouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It seems almost every good idea ends up being badly executed in some way or other, and rather than trying to refine it in the next edition they just bin it and move on to badly-executing the next idea.

No Formations now, wheee! Oh, but I hope you like looking for Yugioh-style combos in your tabletop wargame. Rolling Eyes

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Dreadblizzaard
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Dreadblizzaard

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09 2020, 00:30

@Scrz  I agree with most of what you said. I've played since 2nd ed but have to say 6th and 7th were the worst. I boxed up all of my new (back when 6th came out) DE. They just weren't playable anymore, at least around here. On top of that, I had just finished my Baron conversion a month before 6th codex came out only to find he was gone.
So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 20200908-214506

I was in the middle of a last Malys conversion when it dropped. Sucked. Anyhow, the loss of templates was good for me, thru the years I had so many dropped on my models I was tired of repairing my armies.

As for the new, it was a relief for me in that I didn't have to have a cram session just to build a list. Against everything I've always loved, PL made it so much nicer to be able to prep about 10-15 minutes and throw down. Time is usually a factor with us.

I will say that I miss 5th ed the most.

Not trying to change your mind on anything and glad to hear that ya'll have found a happy medium.

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fisheyes
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fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09 2020, 12:42

@Soulless Samurai, Incubi did have a Formation, it was called Realspace Raiders (IIRC), and gave us some non-bonus that was terrible and never came into play!

Honestly, these latest editions are the greatest the game has ever had. Every other edition had massive holes that were exploited horrendously to the detriment of the game. And GW was silent and refused to fix the issues, despite community outcry. I love 8th/9th way more than 3ed-7th
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Soulless Samurai
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Soulless Samurai

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@fisheyes wrote:
@Soulless Samurai, Incubi did have a Formation, it was called Realspace Raiders (IIRC), and gave us some non-bonus that was terrible and never came into play!

Are you referring to the one that required an Archon, a court, a unit of Incubi, 6 Kabalite squads, Hellions, Scourges, and a Ravager - all with transports?

If so, I was thinking of ones more along the lines of Dark Artisan - ones which gave you options for running small units (e.g. 2 units of Incubi and an Archon or Drazhar), rather than basically dictating your entire army. Razz

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

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Join date : 2016-02-18

So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09 2020, 15:02

Yup, that is the one I am thinking of. We technically had a formation for our "normal" units, so why are you complaining?! /sarcasm

We also had the Grotesquery, which was equally great. Either formation was great on its own, but every time I tried to take both there just didnt seem to be enough meat left for the rest of the list.

We also had the broken Corpse Thief Claw formation of 7 Taloi. It gave us VP every time it killed something. Never ran it myself, just seemed to be too OP (which is pretty funny comming from a 7th edition DE player XD)
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Scrz
Sybarite
Scrz

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Join date : 2015-01-23

So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 10 2020, 12:46

Just to be clear I think 8th/9th is better than all the older editions when it comes to rules clarity, balance, ease of use etc. It is just that the rules are also incredibly boring, slightly stupid and immersion breaking.
No vehicle facings? So no point in having superior speed to try and get behind stuff to blow it up. Just march things straight up the board and create a big multi brawl in the middle. ever. single. game.
Anything can hurt everything? Brings me back to command and conquer when you had infantrymen lighting buildings on fire with their rifles.
Shoot that storm talon with your Ossefactor and mutate its plane-bones! Makes no sense you say? Just forge the narrative harder.
Land raiders still die in one turn so no help from the new wound/tier system there.
And I know it seems weird to want to be able to accidentally clip your own troops with a stray blast template, but when I play DE, and when it does not hit the Archon mind you, I classify that as a real good time.


It is like the difference between WOW classic and WOW retail, or D&D 3.75 ( pathfinder ) and D&D 4/5.
Some people like one and dislike the other for being too simplistic/complex.
This is also the reason chess never appealed to me. How did the knight kill the peasant? Did he ride him down, spilling his brains on the cobblestones? Deftly parrying his amateurish thrust with the pitchfork and stabbing him in the neck? How many turns did it take him to bleed out? What will the difficulty roll be on a revive spell? And if the spell is successful how likely is he to lose stat points due to being crippled?
These are the questions I need answers to in my game system or I get bored.
Which is why I play Rolemaster I suppose. I love you

7th ed 40K as a whole was pure trash and I would never want to go back to it. Unbalanced formations that gives hundreds of points of free stuff to certain factions, and lords of war with destroyer weapons in 1000 pts games is not fun. But the core of the game system was pretty solid. Which is why it lives on in Horus heresy and is continually, albeit very slowly, being improved by Forgeworld.
And it is directly compatible with the 5th 6th dexes. Including the last Dark Eldar codex that had some flavor.
I want to spend a week mulling over the perfect list, and I want the game to last for 4 hours. And that is why new Warhammer is not for me.

To stay on topic and rant a little about the marines.
The thing that bothers me the most about them apart from the fact that they invalidate all the old minimarines by being twice as good as them but not costing twice as many points, is the fluff.
I have apparently been falsely led to believe that space marines were invaluable and hard to produce, relying on technology that was no longer understood only blindly replicated. And that wargear was so costly and time consuming to manufacture that many chapters literally had dudes running around in heresy era suits because getting supplies around in the galaxy in the rate that it is needed is impossible.
Except when you invent new geneseed and new suits of armor and new weapons and are able to mass produce it fast enough to rearm and resupply the ENTIRE galaxy in a couple of hundred years. Including the half that it is impossible to travel to. It makes the last 10.000 years of struggles seem a little... silly.
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So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :)   So, space marines... (warning, I'll rant) :) - Page 4 I_icon_minitime

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