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 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries

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Tala
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Tala

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PostSubject: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2020, 20:28

Hi Guys,

I’ve had a break from Drukhari 7th Edition but even then I only had a small force which I’m now trying to up to 2000 points.

Obsessions:

1. Toxin Crafters - Poison or Melee wound of 6 has +1 damage.
2. Soul Bound - Rerolls of one for Inured of Suffering and units that don’t have PFP gain Inured to Suffering.

HQs

Drazhar - 105 Points
Archon (Huskblade, Splinter Pistol) - 60 Points
Archon (Huskblade, Splinter Pistol) - 60 Points

Troops

10 Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Cannon) - 100 Points
10 Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Cannon) - 100 Points
9 Kabalite Warriors - 90 Points
9 Kabalite Warriors - 90 Points

Transport

Raider (Dark Lance, Splinter Racks) - 100 Points
Raider (Dark Lance, Splinter Racks) - 100 Points
Raider (Dark Lance, Splinter Racks) - 100 Points
Raider (Dark Lance, Splinter Racks) - 100 Points
Raider (Dark Lance) - 90 Points


Elites

9 Incubi - 144 Points
5 Scourges (3 Haywire) - 105 Points

Heavy Support

Ravager (3 Dark Lances) - 145 Points
Ravager (3 Dark Lances) - 145 Points
Ravager (3 Dark Lances) - 145 Points

Flyers

Razorwing (2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon) - 215 Points



Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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dumpeal
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dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2020, 20:54

Too much lances, not enough disintegrators and anti-horde.
Remove the splinter-cannon and the spinter racks.
Remove an archon. HQ are a tax. Not something you really want in your list.
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Tala
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Tala

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2020, 21:04

What would you drop/alter to make way for the anti horde?
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dumpeal
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dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2020, 22:04

@Tala wrote:
What would you drop/alter to make way for the anti horde?

The splinter cannons
the splinter racks
1 archon

but I'm not sure what to add to make a good anti-horde.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 00:37

I think blackheart or flayed skull would be much better.

Also what dumpeal said.
I'd consider changing the lance ravagers to disintegrator ravagers, dropping 2 or 3 raiders for Venoms and reduce the units to 5 man squads with blasters and if flayed skull blast pistols. And get rid of extra splinter cannons. Also you are paying too many points for the razorwing. It's much cheaper than that. I believe it's 170pts with disintegrators, missiles and twin rifle. And try and get that 4th haywire blaster on the scourges.

Something like this.
This is just an example trying to stick with something similar-ish to what you have. And just 1 battalion like you have here as well.

Archon w/ huskblade
Drazar (warlord)

Klaivex
7 incubi

5 mandrakes

2x5 scourges w/ 4 haywire blasters

4x5 kabalites w/ blaster, blast pistol

3x Ravagers w/ disintegrators

RJS w/ disintegrators

4 venoms w/ cannon and twin rifle
Raider w/ lance

This list is about 1915points so you have some points left to spare. More mandrakes are always solid. Or whatever floats your boat really.

Flayed skull venoms move 19" which is great for board control. This also makes your blast pistols have a solid threat range of 25". With flayed skulls ignore cover, reroll 1 for rapid fire when mounted and the extra speed you have an army that can be almost anywhere on the board.

The venoms, disintegrators and kabalites are really great for AI duty. Killes prime marines in droves.
The blasters, pistols and haywire a solid AT as usual. Disintegrators can be used efficiently enough to finish off bigger things when needed.

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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 10:55

Hi Colin,

Thank you for the detailed response I had a few queries I was hoping you’d be able to assist with:

1. What makes Venoms much more desirable than Raiders?
2. With no Dark Lances the Scourges become even more important and if the are destroyed will the Disintegrator Cannons be able to deal with High Toughness models (I’m thinking knights, guard, etc) or is this where the Blasters will come into their own?
3. Am I missing a trick by going mono battalion?
4. What Relic would you take?

I think in my head when I first created the list I got so tied up in poison I was trying to force it to work. You’re very right about Flayed Skull in this list I can see the board control being insane.

For those remaining points I will have a think but like you said Mandrakes look very solid. With them would you buff up the one unit or have two units of 5?

Many thanks for your comments so far.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 15:05

Vanoms and raiders are both solid transports. It's just that the venom is faster, doesn't have a degrading profile like the raider so it keeps it speed up and doesn't lose BS as ot takes damage. And the natural -1 to hit makes the venom about equivalent to the raider in survivability in most cases. And it's the venoms damage output is pretty good for AI. Most of my lists have 3 or 4 venoms and usually 1 or 2 raiders. Seems to be a good balance. The biggest part for me is the venom not having a degrading movement profile. It allows you to keep up the pace and control the board easier.
Raiders do carry more troops and are solid for when you what a character to ride along with a unit. And it's gun is pretty good as well.

Scourges are a precision unit that you can often fire and fade or deep strike to hit where you want them to hit. Be a little cautious with them if you need to be. But they are solid and haywire is great for them. Disintegrators are often good enough to take over for AT when needed. You could always give the razorwing lances if you think you need a few more. I still prefer disintegrators on them, but I have used lances quite a bit and they can be alright.

Going mono battalion isn't that bad, but you are missing out on other opportunities using 3 raiding forces.

You could say take 2 flayed skull and one black heart. Use blackheart for cp regen, muse for 2 ravagers and the rest flayed skull.

Or better yet have 1 detachment be coven to give you more durability and have much greater potential to hold objective and gives a solid assault element.
For example I take 1 Prophets of Flesh partol with
haemonculus with electro whip and hexrifle, vexator mask and WL trait diabolical soothsayer. The archon can still get a WL trait as well.

7-8 Grotesques

10 wracks with electro whip (great for the pof strat that redeploys the unit at full strength)

This give you solid cc units that are hard to shift from objectives.

As for a relic in the list I wrote above I'd probably take a djin blade most of the time or the deny the witch relic. Parasites kiss is fun as well.

And yeah mandrakes are a great genersl purpose unit. They are good at scoring secondaries like line breaker. Solid in CC, hard to hit, have good shooting etc. They fill a lot of gaps the army wants a lot of the time. I always try to include at least one unit. 2 is great though

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 15:19

Personally I like your Dark Lance spam list. Dissintegration Cannons have largely failed me in 9th, mostly due to the extreme cost of them. They do very well in some AT applications, and terrible in others. Their ideal targets are T8 with a decent invulnerable save (think Marine Character Dreadnoughts).

I will second the suggestion to go Flayed Skull. Those re-rolls on everything mounted on transports alone makes it great, never mind the added bonus of the Ignores Cover and +3" movement.

9th edition seems to want us to take more upgrades over more bodies, which is oposite from the last few editions of the game. If you decide to go Black Heart over the Flayed Skull, I would recommend keeping those splinter racks, just to see what it can do for you in your META.

Who are you likely to play against with this army?
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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 16:07

Hi Both,

Colin:

Understood about venoms for some reason I presumed they had a degrading profile. I think I’m my head also I much prefer the aesthetics of Raiders so wanted the list to be eye pleasing and to be competitive but it fell down on a competitive standpoint.

I think the Scourges are great but will take some games with them as I’m sure my first few will be brutal as I’ll leave them in the open etc by accident. I guess the single shot of Lances means they can let you down a bit.

I will admit with my love for the Kabal I largely skimmed Wych and Haemonculus but will give them a reread to see how I could fit them in.

For the relic I would go with Helm of Spite to give some protection from Psykers.

I’ve added a second unit of Mandrakes into the to fill thoshe gaps in army.



Fisheyes:

Did Disintegrator Cannons fail to justify the extra 5 points? Have you had better luck with Lances?

I’m sold on Flayed Skull as it makes far too much sense to not go this way.

Armies in likely to play against are:

Harlequins
Tau
Death Guard
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels/Marines
Tyranids
Grey Knights
Custodoes
Imperial Fists
Damons

I’ve modified my original:

Drazhar
Archon

4 x 5 Kabalites
Blaster
Blast Pistol

2 x 5 Scourges
4 Haywire

9 Incubi

3 x Ravagers
3 Disintegrator Cannons

Raider
Dark Lance

4x Venoms
Splinter Cannon
Twin Rifle

Razorwing Jet Fighter
2 Disintegrator Cannons
Twin Splinter Rifle

If my maths is correct this takes me to 1999 in 9th.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 16:44

I think your math is off. That's pretty much what I have above except I also had mandrakes written in with points to spare. You might be paying way too many points for the RJS again.

OH! Maybe you just forgot to add mandrakes to your written list.

Ok back to disintegrators and dark lances. Dark lances used to be the suprior option back in 7th most of the time. But that has changed. While you definitely want some lances in your list you still want more disintegrators. Disintegrators have about similar damage output against vehicles with invulnerable saves. Plus you need to be able to deal with tough elite units like primaris, nurgle etc. Especially when they are in cover. Lances won't be reliable for removing say marines. Where as disintegrators will chew through marines so much better than poison can. 3 disintegrator ravagers can reliably delete two primaris units a turn where the lance version won't. And againt vehicles they jave similar dmg output again ++save vehicles. Dark Eldar need disintegrators. But a few lances for one cp reroll damage for a change of a few spiked rolls here and there are great. That's where the blaster, blast pistols and a few lances come in handy.

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Last edited by colinsherlow on Tue Aug 04 2020, 16:57; edited 1 time in total
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Tala
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Tala

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 16:48

Ah thank you I’m using some really crummy photos of the new point values so hard to tell the actual points
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 16:59

Try the battlescribe app. The points for dark eldar seem accurate from what I have seen so far

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Tala
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Tala

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 17:04

You are correct I was missing 2 units of 5 Mandrakes (Insert head in hand moment).

I think I’m settled on the list now thank you so much for the help and I’ll get Battlescribe (Doing it manually is a real pain)
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DingWop
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 21:36

I don't have the 9th rule book in front of me at the moment, but I don't believe you can no longer re-roll dmg on the lances. One more point for disintegrator cannons over lances.
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DingWop
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 22:00

My math hammer shows the two best heavy options* are:
1) Black heart disintegrator cannons with writ rerolls
2) Test of skill (lance) reapers
I plan to include two of each of these as staples in my 9th lists.

Next up would be a test of skill razorwing or third a third disintegrator ravager in non-black heart patrol. The -1 to hit and 16.7% boost on wound roles puts the razorwing ahead despite the 10pt premium. Plus I'm already taking a test of skill patrol.

The lance ravagers failed to impress, particularity next to test of skill reapers. Side note, test of skill heat lance reavers mathed out fairly nice. They are also something I don't mind being shot at instead of my real gun boats.

*Note I didn't math out Talos as I don't have any, but I believe they would be very competitive as well.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 22:20

@DingWop wrote:
I don't have the 9th rule book in front of me at the moment, but I don't believe you can no longer re-roll dmg on the lances.  One more point for disintegrator cannons over lances.  

Damage is one of the options for re-rolls.

Hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and random number of attacks.

The other big difference with this stratagem is it's the entire roll, not just a single D6.
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DingWop
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2020, 03:21

Good catch. Re-rolling the lance dmg was my most used use of that stratagem in 8th, glad that is still a thing.
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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 13:00

Been having a rethink on the list after a few evenings with the codex and I have been playing with is the following:

Patrol Detachment 1 - Kabal of the Flayed Skull

Archon - 70
* Blast Pistol
* Huskblade
* Relic Helm of Spite

5x Kabalities 55
* Shredder

5x Mandrakes 85

5x Scourges 115
* 4 Haywire Blasters

Ravager 160
* 3 Disintegrator Cannons

Ravager 160
* 3 Disintegrator Cannons

Razorwing Jetfighter 170
* 2 Disintegrator Cannons
* Twin Splinter Rifle

Venom 75
* Splinter Cannon
* Twin Splinter Rifle

Patrol Detachment 2 - Kabal of the Flayed Skull

Drazhar - 105
* Warlord Trait - Hatred Eternal

5x Kabalities 55
* Shredder

8x Incubi 144
* Klaivex

Ravager 160
* 3 Disintegrator Cannons

Raider 90
* Dark Lance

Venom 75
* Splinter Cannon
* Twin Splinter Rifle

Patrol Detachment 3 - Prophets of Flesh

Haemonculus - 85
* Electro Whip
* Hexrifle
* Warlord Trait - Diabolical Soothslayer

9x Wracks 120
* Acthyst
* Electo Whip

6x Grotesques 270

I believe this takes me to 1999. Any feedback would be great.
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DingWop
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 13:42

Looks solid overall. If I was going to to make one tweak it would be exchanging the razorwing (170) for a reaper (150) and a sslyth (21). The sslyth are point for point one of our heartier options and great at zoning a 9" circle from deep-strike/reserves or a cheap option to babysit an objective so more expensive units can do their thing. I really like the court models for denying deepstrike on my side of the board, but that may have more to do with my local meta that has some deepstrike shenanigans.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 13:43

Something looks off with your Wrack point cost. Shouldn't 9 + ECW be 122 pts?
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Tala
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 13:53

Ahhh you are correct wracks are 125 I missed the cost after adding the whip but it still puts me at 1999 as I had factored it into the overall cost.

Is Reaper the Forgeworld model?

Can’t say I’m really familiar with the court rules are the Sslyth better than the others?
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 13:58

@fisheyes wrote:
Something looks off with your Wrack point cost. Shouldn't 9 + ECW be 122 pts?

I thought the same, but it's just the way he wrote it. His other troops squads don't call out the squad leader specifically, so the whole squad cost is listed on the first line. With both the wracks and Incubi, the squad leader is listed the line below, but his cost is included on the squad cost above. So it's 9 wracks+acothyst for 120 (plus weapon cost not listed).

Same as the Incubi. 8+Kalivex=144
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DingWop
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 14:23

Yes Reaper is the Forgeworld model. I am just finishing up converting two raiders to reapers using extra bits, 3-d printing, and grey stuff modeling putty. I'll try to post some pictures soon. I rate them just below DC ravagers, but above razorwings and DL ravagers. For five extra points over DL ravagers you get average 3.5 DL shots (can reroll to skew this up higher), 2 extra wounds, 2 extra CC attacks, blast keyword, and optional anti-infantry shot profile. They can also be used in wych (see test of skill) and coven detachments. Put one in battlescribe app and look at roster to see it's rules.

Sslyth(21) are tougher, but leahamen(16) and ur-ghul(16) with 3 wounds each are some of the cheapest wounds per point "units" you can find in 40K. I'm not taking them for their offence to be clear, I take them for board control so my expensive offence units don't have to sit on objectives and have secure flanks. In terms of clearing points off the board, besides perhaps Talos they are the worst things the opponent could be shooting at. If they are shooting at these guys I'm keeping more points on the board overall and they aren't landing stuff in my deployment zone from the air or sides of the board. This is likely meta dependent. If deepstrike/reserves aren't a problem in your games they would be less valuable.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 17:27

How many Court models can we take in a detatchment? Was playing around in Battlescribe, and it was telling me that I could only take 1 Sslyth per Archon. I see no mention of this in the Codex or FAQ
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries   2000 Points Kabal/Mercenaries I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 07 2020, 17:46

I had this question recently and found it in our codex, its in a dark green break out box on the page with general drukhari abilities (vanguard of the dark city, raiding force, blades for hire, etc.)

For matched play you can take up to 4 court models in a detachment if you have at least one archon in that detachment. For instance, if you have two patrols that both have an archon you could take up to 8, but you still have to follow the rule of three.

Sslyth are my favorite choice, but ur-ghul in black heart with 5+invul and power from pain are ok if you need to save the 5 pts.
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