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 Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?

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ksym77
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ksym77

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PostSubject: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 02 2020, 09:07

The rules on refunding CP says that a player cannot gain or refund more than 1CP per battle round. Does this apply to Agents of Vect’s CP refund for the opponent? So if the opponent spends more than 1CP they will only get 1 back? Or is it a special case and they can get them all back?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 02 2020, 15:16

Currently I would say it is effected by the gain/refunded rules only 1 per turn and this is RAW and not RAI. IMO it is RAI to give all back.

For friendly games i would let them get all back, for events i would ask the TO.

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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 02 2020, 20:06

I believe they said that if you are to gain a set number e.g. d3 from the tyranid stratagem, you are to gain the whole amount, but then cannot gain any for the rest of the turn.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 02 2020, 22:34

All rules are worded (until faqs) that you only get the 1 per turn back.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 03 2020, 09:53

Oh wow didn't know that... Good find
Now to somehow roll anything than a "one" when using the damn thing... 😑
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 02:00

@DevilDoll wrote:
Oh wow didn't know that... Good find
Now to somehow roll anything than a "one" when using the damn thing... 😑

4 uses of it in 9th so far, and i'm 50/50 on it working.......

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 04:33

It's like bringing 2 shadowfields with one detachment!

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 15:21

Keep this 1 CP in mind when you take Diabolical Soothsayer WLT for your PoF Haemonculus. RAW you would only get 1 CP back instead of the D3.

Clearly not the RAI, but when you live by the Rule Lawyer, you die by the Rule Lawyer Razz
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ksym77
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 15:54

Not sure that is true since Diabolical Soothsayer gains you CP before the battle begins rather than when a player uses a stratagem during a battle round which is what the rule on refunding CP refers to.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 18:43

@fisheyes wrote:
Keep this 1 CP in mind when you take Diabolical Soothsayer WLT for your PoF Haemonculus. RAW you would only get 1 CP back instead of the D3.

Clearly not the RAI, but when you live by the Rule Lawyer, you die by the Rule Lawyer Razz

That is pre game, so you still get max D3 from it.

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JRG
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 21:02

So are you also then assuming that RAW Labyrinthine cunning also is maxed to 1CP a turn?

If this was the case wouldn't they have added this to the FAQ considering they actually FAQ'd this Warlord trait for 9th and didn't add that it is maxed to 1CP a turn?

Also, the SM Ultramarine WLT also gives CP refunds and states in its codex rules that it is max 1CP a turn.

Finally, a codex rule is supposed to supersede a rulebook rule and so does this not allow for CP to be gain over just 1CP?
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 14:15

@JRG wrote:
So are you also then assuming that RAW Labyrinthine cunning also is maxed to 1CP a turn?

If this was the case wouldn't they have added this to the FAQ considering they actually FAQ'd this Warlord trait for 9th and didn't add that it is maxed to 1CP a turn?

Also, the SM Ultramarine WLT also gives CP refunds and states in its codex rules that it is max 1CP a turn.

Finally, a codex rule is supposed to supersede a rulebook rule and so does this not allow for CP to be gain over just 1CP?

There is no assumption, it is clearly RAW on Lab Cunning. It is in the BRB on pg 245.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 14:16

@JRG wrote:
So are you also then assuming that RAW Labyrinthine cunning also is maxed to 1CP a turn?

If this was the case wouldn't they have added this to the FAQ considering they actually FAQ'd this Warlord trait for 9th and didn't add that it is maxed to 1CP a turn?

Also, the SM Ultramarine WLT also gives CP refunds and states in its codex rules that it is max 1CP a turn.

Finally, a codex rule is supposed to supersede a rulebook rule and so does this not allow for CP to be gain over just 1CP?

There is no assumption, it is clearly RAW on Lab Cunning. It is in the BRB on pg 245.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 15:54

@JRG wrote:
So are you also then assuming that RAW Labyrinthine cunning also is maxed to 1CP a turn?

If this was the case wouldn't they have added this to the FAQ considering they actually FAQ'd this Warlord trait for 9th and didn't add that it is maxed to 1CP a turn?

Also, the SM Ultramarine WLT also gives CP refunds and states in its codex rules that it is max 1CP a turn.

Finally, a codex rule is supposed to supersede a rulebook rule and so does this not allow for CP to be gain over just 1CP?

All WL traits, relics, etc.. that refunds CP has been limited 1 per turn for over a year now, b.c BA/IG were refunding up to 3 per 1 CP spent giving them infinite CP.

But when that rule came out in 8th it had a little extra section that it did not apply to stratagems, that is no longer the case now.

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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 18:43

I stand corrected - Thanks for putting me straight!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10 2020, 17:34

It now has been faq'ed

Page 89 – Rare Rules
Add the following:
STRATAGEMS THAT GAIN OR REFUND CPS
The advanced rules for Command points state that you cannot
gain, or have refunded, more than 1 Command point per battle
round because of any rules (other than via the exceptions listed
on page 245 of the Core Book, such as the Battle-forged CP
Bonus). However, there are a small handful of Stratagems that
let players gain or refund several Command points when used
(e.g. Feeder Tendrils in Codex: Tyranids). So long as such a
Stratagem is used during a phase (i.e. it is not used ‘before the
battle’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’), the limit of gaining or
refunding 1 Command point per battle round does not apply to
any Command points gained via Stratagems

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ksym77
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PostSubject: Re: Agents of Vect and Refunding CP?   Agents of Vect and Refunding CP? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10 2020, 17:42

Glad to see they are on top of it!
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