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DevilDoll
Sybarite
DevilDoll

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11 2020, 22:15

Its great that you are enjoying the army so much and I hope that you continue to do so and have a blast throughout 9th...
Having said that I thing for the vast majority who are playing in a more competitive environment, the army does not fare that well... I'm not saying that drukhari suck but we are one of the least competitive armies out there and the general concensous seem to agree on that, myself included...

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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 02:50

[quote="Cerve"]
@amishprn86 wrote:

The thing is, the Court brings to you extremely cheap Infantry units. Usually my infantry begins embarked (and shoot), or in case of Wracks they Cornucopians around the board, trying a melee so usually it's difficult to me to sacrifice some units for actions. The Court add me multiple infantry units that will do them for me.
If the opponent is going to ignore them, they are free VPs.
If the opponent is going to kill them, usually need to sacrifice some No-Los or force him to move and shoot them down, conditioning his game. And BH Sslyths are not so easy to kill, 3W T5 5++/6+++, a single Thunderfire is not sure to kill one of them (already tested). So yes, they're squishy but not-so-squishy actually. And that works amazing for me.
I'm picking Scramblers since 2 games and I find it a good mission with Court. When you spread yourself around the table (ignore the 6" range from the Archon) killing all the Court could be difficult.

Anyway I think Drukhari are one of the most competitive army in 9th, but they still a big-brain army so not for everyone. But if you get the potential about spreading muitiple threats on the board, playing with covers, silence any piece you're charging (actually this is an huge BUFF for us, not a drawback, because its extremely powerfull now using all of our Transport for that. My Venoms rarely shot, while usually go and charge everything just for pinning the opponent down! This play is amazing for us).
Between silencing in melee and firepower/melee power, yesterday I blocked an entirely Imperial Fist army lol.

We are too fast, and we are a lot! I never loved this army more than now <3


I know they are cheap infantry, thats why i tried them as well for a few games, but when 1 unit can pick them off b.c no protection its just a waste IMO. I've use Succubus and Beast masters for the same thing to a MUCH better effect.

DE is not one of the most competitive armies in 9th, going off all players experience not just yours almost every other player thinks DE is on the lower end.

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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 05:33

Usually I don't care about the mass, who just rant and most of the times talk without being good at this game. I prefer to follow singles champions (like Skari for example) where you really do learn something. A lot of people still don't know how to manage threats, how to propose multiple threats, how to moving ok
n the board, to read a game, an opponent, how to bait etc. An example? People still think that Scourges are one shot unit: no they don't. If you know how to saturate your opponent with multiple threats and how to strike single flanks on the table you will find yourself in the situation where if your oppo will kill your Scourges that will ALWAYS be your win. While the common opinion is "Scourges are simply bad because they die right after the deep strike"...ok. I ended a lot of games with Scourges alive until the end just because my oppo knows that those were a bait and he was good enough to avoid them.
The Court being targetable is what makes them extremely good for their purpose (and remember that you can't do Scrambles with characters).

This is a big brain army, but only few people knows how to run them properly. And I just prefer follow those single guys more than listen "the majority of players".
DE are amazing in 9th, expecially playing on objectives Smile
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 11:21

We're certainly not unplayable and a good DE player can still do very well, but I think it's almost undeniable at this point that we're clearly not one of the strongest factions in 9th.

I love to see the optimism but I really don't think it's warranted.
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Denegaar
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Denegaar

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 12:28

Refering to stuff I've been reading this week, the army got hit by "nerfs" that weren't pointing at us directly since a couple editions ago.

Stuff like increasing the points of all troops, making small vehicles or monsters not grant cover and the slow improvement of Primaris-type opponents has been progressively making Drukhari worse, so let's hope some of those things got addressed by the new Codex. A revamp of basic weaponry and a better way to play with embarked units (and HQs, please) would be a great improvement, both gameplay and fluff-wise.

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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 12:48

@Cerve wrote:
Usually I don't care about the mass, who just rant and most of the times talk without being good at this game. I prefer to follow singles champions (like Skari for example) where you really do learn something. A lot of people still don't know how to manage threats, how to propose multiple threats, how to moving ok
n the board, to read a game, an opponent, how to bait etc. An example? People still think that Scourges are one shot unit: no they don't. If you know how to saturate your opponent with multiple threats and how to strike single flanks on the table you will find yourself in the situation where if your oppo will kill your Scourges that will ALWAYS be your win. While the common opinion is "Scourges are simply bad because they die right after the deep strike"...ok. I ended a lot of games with Scourges alive until the end just because my oppo knows that those were a bait and he was good enough to avoid them.
The Court being targetable is what makes them extremely good for their purpose (and remember that you can't do Scrambles with characters).

This is a big brain army, but only few people knows how to run them properly. And I just prefer follow those single guys more than listen "the majority of players".
DE are amazing in 9th, expecially playing on objectives Smile

Being good with an army and the army being good itself is not the same thing. Saying you need a big brain to make it work doesn't make it a top comp army.

IDK who you are playing but if i put Scourge on the table to "saturate" the board, my opponents just walks over them like they are not even on the table, it takes nothing to kill them.

Its great you are having fun and not trying to be negative, but from my PoV you are not being positive and instead sporting a narrative that isn't true, telling someone Scourges wins games and you need a big brain honestly comes off more rude to me than say "Hey listen, we are under powered, but we still have the tools to win, here are some tips".

I still play DE and love them, having played them in 6th and 7th and still able to win at times I can safety say I am confident in my abilities, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say a unit that is 2x the cost as others with the same rules and roles is good.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 13:01

Squads of 1-2 Taloi + Venoms no longer shielding Characters will take some time to get our heads wrapped around. Although the nerf to Blast does help with larger squads of Grots (who keep looking better and better).

Various leaks coming from rules included in the ongoing model repackaging are interesting. Some things I have noticed are:

-Heavy Bolters look like they are going to flat D2
-Power Fists also look like they are going to flat D2
-Terminators going to 3W (where they always should have been tbh).

Lots of love to the Imperials, we will see what kind of trickle-down love we will get by accident Razz
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 13:09

@fisheyes wrote:
Squads of 1-2 Taloi + Venoms no longer shielding Characters will take some time to get our heads wrapped around. Although the nerf to Blast does help with larger squads of Grots (who keep looking better and better).

Various leaks coming from rules included in the ongoing model repackaging are interesting. Some things I have noticed are:

-Heavy Bolters look like they are going to flat D2
-Power Fists also look like they are going to flat D2
-Terminators going to 3W (where they always should have been tbh).

Lots of love to the Imperials, we will see what kind of trickle-down love we will get by accident Razz

Sadly in October when all these Marines rules comes out and with our points changes for our new rules we will not have, it just means we are in an even weaker spot.

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Wed Aug 12 2020, 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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Darklord
Hellion
Darklord

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 13:49

I like my Dark Eldars too and don't want to play other.

Last sunday I made my first V9 battle against a Crafworld player (end of 2nd round : 10-28 for him and my army down).
His two "2x90°" Airplanes and many "assault 4" bikes, told me "we can do same things but better".

in fact since codex V5, DE didn't get real new releases to complet the faction.
Paradoxically we are a Flying army without any flying HQ.
Where are our Archon on command Ravager, Succubus on flying Chariot, Heamonculus monted on Talos?
But I think our next news will be only plastic version of failcast models (like Drazhar and incubi).

I feel that Geuweu abondoned to improv the DE faction : nothing in V6, a joke in V7, a little in V8...perhaps something in V9.






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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 14:06

Yeah, our planes are literally crap compare to CWE ones for the same points (other than Hemlock) the CH is 180pts, 3 str 8 shots that re-roll wounds vs anything with fly and they also have 2 more wounds, not only that but their BS is 2+ to start.

Also with the ability to add +4" to all shuriken, CWE bikes are stupidly good in 9th, and you can also give them a flat additive -1ap if you are in close range. I'm trying to get a friend to take MSU Windriders b.c IMO they are auto takes now, a Autarch Skyrunner with 3x3 bikes, 2 units with twin catapults, and 1 unit with cannons in an Outrider detachment with maybe a unit of Vypers and a Warlock.

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Darklord
Hellion
Darklord

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 14:24

I heard our airplane speciality is ground attack...
Where is the bonus against non-flying units?

We are a "goog faction".
We don't need too much abilities (like reavers who have lost jink).
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krayd
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krayd

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 14:44

@fisheyes wrote:


-Heavy Bolters look like they are going to flat D2
-Power Fists also look like they are going to flat D2
-Terminators going to 3W (where they always should have been tbh).

Lots of love to the Imperials, we will see what kind of trickle-down love we will get by accident Razz

I think that heavy bolter statline is particular to the Invictus Warsuit, and it probably isn't a heavy bolter (the name of the weapon isn't on the leaked datasheet because it is one of the newfangled all-symbols datasheets) - It will likely be renamed something like 'warsuit heavy bolt pistol' or something like that, since it is a heavy 1 weapon, and I don't foresee standard infantry heavy bolters being changed to that, since the role of the standard heavy bolter for taking out groups of models, rather than pinging single heavy shots.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 17:01

@krayd, I had not thought of that. It just seemed to fit with the point increase from 8>15 the HB took.

Hopefully some of our D3/D6 weapons start to see the love that the Primaris are getting. Minimum rolls, flat damage, etc.

Luckily we still have some of the best models in the whole game Smile
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 21:48

Some more datasheet leaks:
powerswords are +1S
all chainswords get -1AP, not just the primaris ones.

Oddly enough, vanguard vets have been pumped up to 2W each. I wonder if this is the next step in phasing out the old marines - basically making all marines primaris, even marines that previously weren't primaris.


Hopefully, these weapon changes will apply to Xenos equivalents too. I imagine that if, as some have said, the current wargear point values have been set with the next codex in mind, then the powersword, agonizer, huskblade, and venomblade should all be made roughly equivalent in our next dex.

My guess is that the weapon statlines for us might end up looking something like this:
powersword: S: +1 AP:-3 D:1
huskblade: S:+1 AP:-2 D:1d3
agonizer: S: poison(4+) AP:-3 D:1
venomblade S:poison(2+) AP:0 D:1d3

This would make them all roughly equivalent (justifying them all being the same pt cost), with different advantages vs. certain types of units.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12 2020, 23:22

@krayd wrote:
Some more datasheet leaks:
powerswords are +1S
all chainswords get -1AP, not just the primaris ones.

Oddly enough, vanguard vets have been pumped up to 2W each. I wonder if this is the next step in phasing out the old marines - basically making all marines primaris, even marines that previously weren't primaris.


Hopefully, these weapon changes will apply to Xenos equivalents too. I imagine that if, as some have said, the current wargear point values have been set with the next codex in mind, then the powersword, agonizer, huskblade, and venomblade should all be made roughly equivalent in our next dex.

My guess is that the weapon statlines for us might end up looking something like this:
powersword: S: +1 AP:-3 D:1
huskblade: S:+1 AP:-2 D:1d3
agonizer: S: poison(4+) AP:-3 D:1
venomblade S:poison(2+) AP:0 D:1d3

This would make them all roughly equivalent (justifying them all being the same pt cost), with different advantages vs. certain types of units.

Interesting. I think the change to Power Swords and especially Chainswords are well warranted. If GW is finally serious about making close combat a good option, better wargear is definitely a good place to start.

It does have some far fetching consequences, though. Now, a Klaive is just a Power Sword and about those Hellglaives... yeah, no. Also, you could make the case that an Archite Glaive is now extra inferior. And how does melee poison fits into the picture? I am curious how Wyches will fall into place too. I doubt that GW revisits all of our melee options but I'd definitely be the right direction.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 08:57

I'm curious about SM Codex. Hope some points will raise up, a lot of choices are too cheap right now
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Denegaar
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 10:23

Are you guys playing Drazhar as just an HQ (no Incubi)? I was thinking about 2 Coven patrols (DT and PoF) and a Kabal (BH), and I'm not sure how good is the Haemonculous. Drazhar seems pretty dope.
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harlokin
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 12:03

Drazhar is great, just as an HQ, and can be a good substitute for an Archon or (particularly) Succubus.

Haemonculi are really strong HQ choices, particularly for their +1 Toughness aura, but also for their equipment/relic choices. I would't run Coven without at least one.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 12:19

@harlokin wrote:
Drazhar is great, just as an HQ, and can be a good substitute for an Archon or (particularly) Succubus.

Haemonculi are really strong HQ choices, particularly for their +1 Toughness aura, but also for their equipment/relic choices. I would't run Coven without at least one.

Totally agree. Drazhar is a beast in my opinion.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 12:41

Every list I make begins with Drazahar... and normally he is my warlord as well.

Rerolling wounds, with his exploding 4 wounds on a 6 is unreal. He will take out leeman russ without effort.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 12:47

Ill second the power of the Haemonculi. There are many Relic/WLT combinations that are just nasty. The Nightmare Doll Relic is really underrated, having T5 with a 4++/4+++, combined with a re-roll from Diabolical Soothsayer is tankier than many armies tanks XD. 100% our best HQ option (for the points).

One of the benefits of Drazhar is that he can go in any detachment, Coven/Cult/Kabal.

The increase to 2W on random old-marines will make flat Damage 2 weapons almost mandatory (if they were not already). Was really hoping to get away from Dissie Ravagers, but looks like that just isnt in the cards :/
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 13:42

@Denegaar wrote:
Are you guys playing Drazhar as just an HQ (no Incubi)? I was thinking about 2 Coven patrols (DT and PoF) and a Kabal (BH), and I'm not sure how good is the Haemonculous. Drazhar seems pretty dope.

I play no Incubi, but always put Drazhar in.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 17:36

WC made a post about new codices and kits, stating that the changes to weapon stats will be applied to chaos and xenos equivalents. So, this should mean that our power swords will get +1S and it might mean that heat lances will get +2D at melta range. Granted, we might not actually get those changes until our codex drops.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/
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Darklord
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 20:01

I hope (or I dream)
Heavy bolter D2  -> Splinter Canon D2
Flamer 12" -> Liquefactor  12"
Rod of covenant D2 -> Archite glaive D2


At least  we'll have D+2 to heatlance within 9" (or perhaps more).
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13 2020, 20:41

Wow, GW is sure reacting quickly to these leaks.

It seems like they should have just done a full re-vamp, 8th edition style. These are large changes that will drastically affect the game.

We will be needing a lot more D2 weaponry. Maybe the increased cost of Dissies mean they are going to D3? One can only dream...
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