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 The Current Meta Going into 9th

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JRG
Slave
JRG

Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-03-09

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 04 2020, 22:01

@Harlokin - Ah, got it. nice little trick to note.
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 02:39

@harlokin wrote:
@JRG wrote:
May I ask, what is the reason to include the Sslyth unit, objective capping unit?

I try to take one if my HQs are running about in a Venom, to take the hit if (when) the boat get destroyed and I roll a  '1' for passenger casualties.

That said, the Sslyth dropped quite a bit in points, and are nice overall.

Please explain this. By the rulebook, you would roll separately for the Sslyth and the Archon. And, it isn't a wound lost, so Cold Blooded Bodyguard wouldn't work, either.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 02:59

@False Son wrote:
@harlokin wrote:
@JRG wrote:
May I ask, what is the reason to include the Sslyth unit, objective capping unit?

I try to take one if my HQs are running about in a Venom, to take the hit if (when) the boat get destroyed and I roll a  '1' for passenger casualties.

That said, the Sslyth dropped quite a bit in points, and are nice overall.

Please explain this.  By the rulebook, you would roll separately for the Sslyth and the Archon.  And, it isn't a wound lost, so Cold Blooded Bodyguard wouldn't work, either.

You don't roll separately for every model or unit in the transport; you roll a dice for each model inside it at the point of destruction, and for every 1 rolled you get to choose a model to also remove:

Quote :
If there are any units embarked within the destroyed Transport model, these must now immediately disembark (see above) before the model itself is removed from the battlefield; these units are not affected by the destroyed model’s Explodes ability (or equivalent) – instead you must roll one D6 for each model you just set up on the battlefield. For each roll of 1, a model that disembarked (your choice) is destroyed.

So with an Archon and Sslyth in the same transport that gets destroyed, you'd roll two dice. If you get a 5 and a 1, for instance, you can choose to remove the Sslyth and leave the Archon unharmed.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 11:27

Yep I tried a kinda MSU spam and it worked for me too:

3 Patrol (I'll write fast) all Flayed Skulls:
2 Archons (1 WL, Hatred Eternal+relic Blades)
Drazhar
7x5 Kabals (Blaster/BlastPistol)
5 Venoms
2 Raiders (Dissies)
3 Ravagers (Dissies)
3x5 Mandrakes


But Flayed Skulls wasn't that great. +3" is the best value (combined with 6" Blast Pistols range) but that's all. I think BH still better overall.
Anyway the list is solid, good amount of troops, transports are good with objectives (go for.them, wait the oppo destroying them, disembark into objectives; good for area denial).
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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 12:48

Interesting list by Lawrence, seems to be lacking the usual Coven anvil unit for holding center board, and dedicated AT units. TY for posting it.

I still swear by Flayed Skull. Primaris Marines in cover still get a 5+ save against Black Heart dissies, bumping that to a 6+ really helps.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 13:51

Maybe vs Marine. The problem is, for what I saw in game, people tend more to be "behind" a ruin, than being "inside" a ruin. So yeah, I never got to negate cover during the game.
I need way more tests tho.
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harlokin
Hellion
harlokin

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 14:08

@fisheyes wrote:
Interesting list by Lawrence, seems to be lacking the usual Coven anvil unit for holding center board, and dedicated AT units. TY for posting it.

I still swear by Flayed Skull. Primaris Marines in cover still get a 5+ save against Black Heart dissies, bumping that to a 6+ really helps.

You're welcome. To be fair it wasn't once of their "Tacticas", so it wasn't meant to be bleeding edge competitive, but it's nice to see that Kabs and Venoms can do 'something' if used/deployed effectively.

That said, Lawrence mentioned that they'll be doing a Tactica battle with Drukhari soon (and I wouldn't be surprised to see Taloi in that list), as well as a Drukhari faction focus analysis for 9th.

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 15:44

@harlokin, I personally would like to see less "3x3 Talos" lists, mostly from a collecting POV. I already got 3 Taloi, and dont really want to make more XD

Grots are still one of our best units in terms of Point Per Wound (Grots = 11.25ppw, Talos = 15ppw, Wracks = 13ppw, Venoms = 12.5ppw), I would like to see more of them get played (I also have way more of them, and they are more fun to convert).
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 16:07

@Burnage wrote:
@False Son wrote:
@harlokin wrote:
@JRG wrote:
May I ask, what is the reason to include the Sslyth unit, objective capping unit?

I try to take one if my HQs are running about in a Venom, to take the hit if (when) the boat get destroyed and I roll a  '1' for passenger casualties.

That said, the Sslyth dropped quite a bit in points, and are nice overall.

Please explain this.  By the rulebook, you would roll separately for the Sslyth and the Archon.  And, it isn't a wound lost, so Cold Blooded Bodyguard wouldn't work, either.

You don't roll separately for every model or unit in the transport; you roll a dice for each model inside it at the point of destruction, and for every 1 rolled you get to choose a model to also remove:

Quote :
If there are any units embarked within the destroyed Transport model, these must now immediately disembark (see above) before the model itself is removed from the battlefield; these units are not affected by the destroyed model’s Explodes ability (or equivalent) – instead you must roll one D6 for each model you just set up on the battlefield. For each roll of 1, a model that disembarked (your choice) is destroyed.

So with an Archon and Sslyth in the same transport that gets destroyed, you'd roll two dice. If you get a 5 and a 1, for instance, you can choose to remove the Sslyth and leave the Archon unharmed.

How hard is it to start a new sentence when differentiating between units and models, GW? Use of Em Dashes is so weirdly on point for them.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 16:09

For me in 9th after playing 9 games (3 at 1k which is 100% different game and meta). I really think you need Coven.

My top units for 9th so far are (in somewhat order)

Talos
Ravagers
Mandrakes
Wracks
Grots
Reaper
Wyches
Raiders
RWJF
RWF's

I feel you need to pick a style of midfield with fire support and do not mix to much (not saying don't go 1-1-1, but I mean don't have to little of everything, 1 off unit of Reavers is fine with 1-2 WYch units, but don't also have 1-2 Kabals and 1-2 Wracks with only 1 unit of Talos and 2 transports, thats to thin of mid field units and fire support units)

Example, you take 6 Talos and 2 Ravagers, well you do not need Flyers now at all but instead something to hold mid field, b.c you are already Kabal and Coven, double down on them, take another Kabal for 1 more Ravager and then take some extra Grots to attack an objective.

Example 2: You take 3x10 Wych units in 3 Raiders, some Reavers, 3 Reapers, and 2 RWJF's all in ToS. You need some objective holders, take 2-3 grot units, some Wracks, in PoF.

Over all DE needs to balance holding the objectives and killing things off of it (this is all armies of 9th) but b.c we have 3 patrols to do this you can modify it in your way, with more relative options you could tilt your list to far into fire support and not enough into holder, or to much holding (30 Wracks, 10 Grots) and not enough support, which many will say all melee rush is viable, and it could work but with smaller tables, opponents long range guns are just as deadly as before, Intercessors are now more able to get more damage off, CWE units like Support Batteries are almost always in range now, etc.. So you still want units to handle thous.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 17:27

@amishprn86, what about the Mandrakes put them in your MVP list?

For their durability/movement, I would have expected Venoms to be superior (higher movement, toughness, damage output[I assume], same -1 to hit).

I ask because I started converting a bunch in the begining of 8th, then lost interest Razz Im sure they are lurking in the back of a closet somewhere....
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harlokin
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 17:34

@fisheyes wrote:
@harlokin, I personally would like to see less "3x3 Talos" lists, mostly from a collecting POV. I already got 3 Taloi, and dont really want to make more XD

Grots are still one of our best units in terms of Point Per Wound (Grots = 11.25ppw, Talos = 15ppw, Wracks = 13ppw, Venoms = 12.5ppw), I would like to see more of them get played (I also have way more of them, and they are more fun to convert).

I agree with you totally. I'm in the same position, I own 3 Talos and a Cronos, and that's enough for me. I've also recently converted 6 Grots, so I am keen to use them.

The main thing is that I love Drukhari for the fast moving, glass hammer, 'space pirate' style, and a Coven-heavy army just doesn't do that for me.

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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 18:52

@fisheyes wrote:
@amishprn86, what about the Mandrakes put them in your MVP list?

For their durability/movement, I would have expected Venoms to be superior (higher movement, toughness, damage output[I assume], same -1 to hit).

I ask because I started converting a bunch in the begining of 8th, then lost interest Razz Im sure they are lurking in the back of a closet somewhere....

Yeah, but Mandrakes can benefit from terrain in ways that venoms cannot, and are probably simply easier to hide in terms of TLOS.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 05 2020, 19:15

@fisheyes wrote:
@amishprn86, what about the Mandrakes put them in your MVP list?

For their durability/movement, I would have expected Venoms to be superior (higher movement, toughness, damage output[I assume], same -1 to hit).

I ask because I started converting a bunch in the begining of 8th, then lost interest Razz Im sure they are lurking in the back of a closet somewhere....

Free DS is aways good especially in 9th now, they can still deal good damage for their points, also -1/5++/6+++ means pop shots can not kill them, and if you charge its gravy. Having 1-2 units in a list will always be a benefit IMO. I'm taking 2x5 for most of my lists now and i have not regretted it.

When comparing to a Venom its the same durability outside of T3 (both are -1/5++/and Drakes are a 6+++) and Mandrakes deal more damage actually. Also vs Multi D weapons, Mandrakes are more durable.
EDIT: Mandrakes don't need to be fast when they can DS, and a 8" move is not really that slow after they come down.

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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2020, 07:53

With a smaller table, did someone found himself in trouble relying on deepstriking units? As the opponent I found myself denying DS pretty easy.
I think DS is good, but with 44"x60", it becames way more difficult imho
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Gherma
Kabalite Warrior
Gherma

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2020, 11:14

@harlokin wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Has anyone tried a Venom Spam in a competitive environment yet?

Curious how it stands up to all the AT weapons people are bringing, and how the mobility pays off to grab Secondaries, at the cost of the Big Game Hunter secondaries it gives up (sry, cant recall the new name of that secondary)

Doesn't count as a "competitive environment", but Lawrence (Tabletop Tactics) did well with a Venom spam list against Ravenwing. This is what he ran:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari – Drukhari) ++

Detachment Type: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, The Djin Blade, Warlord

Archon: Blast Pistol, Huskblade

Archon: Blast Pistol, Huskblade

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

+ Elites +

Sslyth

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

+ Flyer +

Voidraven: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

Voidraven: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [93 PL, 1,996pts] ++

Out of curiosity, which secondaries did he pick?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2020, 13:06

@Cerve wrote:
With a smaller table, did someone found himself in trouble relying on deepstriking units? As the opponent I found myself denying DS pretty easy.
I think DS is good, but with 44"x60", it becames way more difficult imho

1-2 units is 100% fine, DSing 4-5 units not a good idea IMO (unless you are GSC).

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harlokin
Hellion
harlokin

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 06 2020, 14:54

@Gherma wrote:
@harlokin wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Has anyone tried a Venom Spam in a competitive environment yet?

Curious how it stands up to all the AT weapons people are bringing, and how the mobility pays off to grab Secondaries, at the cost of the Big Game Hunter secondaries it gives up (sry, cant recall the new name of that secondary)

Doesn't count as a "competitive environment", but Lawrence (Tabletop Tactics) did well with a Venom spam list against Ravenwing. This is what he ran:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari – Drukhari) ++

Detachment Type: Kabal of the Flayed Skull

+ HQ +

Archon: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, The Djin Blade, Warlord

Archon: Blast Pistol, Huskblade

Archon: Blast Pistol, Huskblade

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

Kabalite Warriors
3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
Sybarite: Blast Pistol

+ Elites +

Sslyth

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

Ravager: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

+ Flyer +

Voidraven: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

Voidraven: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [93 PL, 1,996pts] ++

Out of curiosity, which secondaries did he pick?

He went for

Bring It Down

Engage on All Fronts

Minimise Losses

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Denegaar
Hellion
Denegaar

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 09 2020, 19:04

So which units are you using the most now with 9th?

I want to use this change from 8th to 9th to make the jump from Kill Team to full 40k, and I want to make some purchases. I have right now:

- A couple Archons and 15 kabalites
- A Succubus and 10 wyches
- An Haemonculous with 10 Wracks, 3 Grotesques and two Talos
- Two Venoms and a Raider

I really like the Cult Bikes, the Raider-Ravager models and the Talos/Cronos. Are those units useful in 1500-2000 pts?
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10 2020, 08:53

Cult bikes are useful in my opinion if used right. I take units of the minimal 3 bikes, just to tie up some big artillery or something. Especially now boards are somewhat smaller, you'll very likely be able to tie up his backfield artillery in your first turn. They won't do much damage, but will hold your opponent occupied until your damage dealers arrive.
Back in 8th, with larger tables, I also found it useful to have many different units with different movement stats. I caused many opponents lots of trouble because my many msu's would be spread over the board in such a way that he had no place to deepstrike anything. A good friend of mine still curses me because literally half his Tyranids army could not deepstrike at all until I already removed the other half of his army. This was no battle, it was a slaughter, and mostly because of my jetbikes.
You might also want to consider a Forgeworld Reaper. Especially with Dark Technomancers it's a beast, and I am seriously surprised they didn't give it a point hike.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10 2020, 14:20

I would be careful about going too MSU with our paper thin units. We dont want to make it easy for the enemy to get that "kill more each turn" secondary (cant recall the name off the top of my head).
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10 2020, 17:36

I feel MSU is fine in Coven, Venoms with Wrakcs in DT + another trait will be just fine b.c of how tough everything is backed by Talos. Even MSU BH raiders with Ravagers (each can also take Reapers).


For me sadly Coven is the answer again, which I played Coven only for the past year.

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Cerve
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11 2020, 08:46

So I have 3 games for now, all 2000 points, all GT pack, Orks-IF-IF.
I'm running a Kabal MSU+8 Grots, 10 Wracks pack. Damn, we are AMAZING on taking objectives! 3 Win, expecially vs Marines I find myself pretty good against them. Still playing 3 Dissies Ravagers, too strong in this meta (always in DeepStrike).

And oh my god: the Court is not only playable, but even broken! 3 Sslyths are mandatory for me, 3 infantry units that will do actions everytime, they can spread, they add body (in terms of number of units) helping a lot in mid/late game for objectives, and they draw enemy fire from the rest of the army (which is not bad once contestualyzed).
We still a big brain army when you don't play 9 Talos, but I feel Talos kind a trap in 9th. I don't like them too much.


Guys, just play the Court, really! <3
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11 2020, 13:32

Court don't ave character protection, when I used them after 1 game and the local knew what they can do, the turn they try anything they die instantly. SO you need some good LoS blocking and not fighting against anyone trying for Engage on All Fronts.

But GJ! What was your list?

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PostSubject: Re: The Current Meta Going into 9th   The Current Meta Going into 9th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11 2020, 17:30

@amishprn86 wrote:
Court don't ave character protection, when I used them after 1 game and the local knew what they can do, the turn they try anything they die instantly. SO you need some good LoS blocking and not fighting against anyone trying for Engage on All Fronts.

But GJ! What was your list?

I'm testing and evolving this list game by game. TriPatrol, 2 BH 1 PoF:

Archon WL (husk,blastp, Cunning+Writ)
Drazhar
3 Sslyth+1 UrGhul
5x5 Kabal (blast, blastp)
5 Venoms
3 Ravager (dissies)
Haemi (Mask+PoFTrait)
10 Wracks
8 Grotesques

10+D3 CPs


The thing is, the Court brings to you extremely cheap Infantry units. Usually my infantry begins embarked (and shoot), or in case of Wracks they Cornucopians around the board, trying a melee so usually it's difficult to me to sacrifice some units for actions. The Court add me multiple infantry units that will do them for me.
If the opponent is going to ignore them, they are free VPs.
If the opponent is going to kill them, usually need to sacrifice some No-Los or force him to move and shoot them down, conditioning his game. And BH Sslyths are not so easy to kill, 3W T5 5++/6+++, a single Thunderfire is not sure to kill one of them (already tested). So yes, they're squishy but not-so-squishy actually. And that works amazing for me.
I'm picking Scramblers since 2 games and I find it a good mission with Court. When you spread yourself around the table (ignore the 6" range from the Archon) killing all the Court could be difficult.

Anyway I think Drukhari are one of the most competitive army in 9th, but they still a big-brain army so not for everyone. But if you get the potential about spreading muitiple threats on the board, playing with covers, silence any piece you're charging (actually this is an huge BUFF for us, not a drawback, because its extremely powerfull now using all of our Transport for that. My Venoms rarely shot, while usually go and charge everything just for pinning the opponent down! This play is amazing for us).
Between silencing in melee and firepower/melee power, yesterday I blocked an entirely Imperial Fist army lol.

We are too fast, and we are a lot! I never loved this army more than now <3

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