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 9th ed Scourges

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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 19 2020, 14:40

@fisheyes wrote:
Ah, I see what you guys are getting at. Personally, I think a unit deep striking then FaF hardly breaks the game.

However, I will not be using it to get into/out of transports on the same turn. That is obviously not RAI (to me anyway).

It's not about whether or not it breaks the game, but they're both pretty clearly against RAI. What you're intending to do was expressly forbidden last edition. The F&F strat was written last edition when there was no "normal". Arguing that their intent was to flip their stance on that on this edition as evidenced by the fact that "normal" does not appear in the revised wording of the stratagem is a huge stretch.

It's always better to go with the less powerful ruling, that way you only stand to gain. As it is, you're going to rely on a strategem making you think scourges are better than they actually are. When GW gets around to this, I'm absolutely positive it will be ruled the same way it was last edition (and every edition since at least 3rd).

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CoolNamedArchon
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 07 2021, 18:38

Winged striking into this thread. Been reading over past comments, not sure if a new thread was needed though seems most of the discussion was set in previous codex, in any case it helped me clarify my thoughts a bit.

I'm more or less dead set on taking scourges, and also sort of dead set on giving them "cool" weapons over their shard carbines. I tend to face marines 90%+ of the time so not hell bent on shredders too.

So I ended up doing some (perhaps bad) maths and landed at haywires, though now I'm not sure at all, in the end I think I'm tossing up between heat lances and dark lances, though as both are heavy I'm thinking screw it I'll just flit about hiding and getting off 4 DL shots where I can. Am I mad, maybe, though finally coming around to playing using Black Heart Kabal over Poison Tongue.
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Yziel
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 00:14

I like Blasters and Shredders personally.

I feel like it's bit of wasted potential to stick them with Heavy weapons that make them hit worse or leaving them parked somewhere with Dark Lances.

Blasters have very random damage which sucks but they are assult and high impact.

Shredders are one of very few Blast weapons in the army and does well at clearing screens and mulching hordes at range. Also the cheapest option apart from Carbines.

Haywires are cool but they are short ranged, heavy, kind of bad against infantry with it's low strength. Mortal wounds are pretty good in some matches but I feel like pretty few Vehicles that are run regularly have decent invulns or saves high enough that Blasters/Lances don't put them at 6s. And I don't like that there are feel no pain against mortals all over the place as strats.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 00:47

I like mine parked in cover with Dark Lances. 4 shots anti tank at 36" is a nice way to say: go somewhere else.
Hopefully its there, where you want them. Or they get shot down. But that could take some firepower needed elsewhere.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 12:09

Ive been thinking them over, mostly because I hate the Resin Mandrake models.

75 pts for 5 Mandrakes
80 pts for 5 Scourges with 4 Shredders

Very similar units, able to DS into table quarters for the new (harder) Scramblers.

Mandrakes can go back into reserve and DS in later turns (if they survive). Scourges able to fly around with their large Fly/Movement to get into position for Secondary points (shooting when they cant score a Secondary).

Mandrakes able to Infiltrate and screen out potential 1st turn shenanigans.

Scourges are slightly tougher than Mandrakes.

I think there is a place for them. But I need WAY more testing before I can put any weight behind my opinion. Going to try out Mandrakes this weekend, possibly Scourges.

Scourges have way better models (those helmets are AWESOME), so there is that too
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Yziel
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 12:49

I think S6 anti-horde weapons will go up in stock when the new T5 Orks come out.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 13:19

Or Razorwing missiles. Necrotoxin doesnt care about T5.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 14:00

Haha, dont think Scourges can get access to Razorwing Missiles. But I do enjoy the mental image Wink
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 14:13

Ups! Looks like, I didnt think about the topic here. Apologies!!!

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JayCee
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 09 2021, 10:31

I'm testing my list this weekend which has three squads of Scourges in it. I have two with 4 shredders. These are cheap enough that they can be action monkeys at no super cost to the army but also will be great at clearing potential screens to the big turn 2 charges.

The third squad is there as a blaster base to drop in and try to damage any vehicles that are hiding out of LoS of the dark lances etc on my raiders and ravager.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 09 2021, 15:55

Sounds good.

Remember, if you are running a Realspace Raid (aka batalion with all 3 HQs) your Scourges will get reroll 1s to hit from the Archon Aura.

If you are running Black Heart, with the Writ of the Living Muse relic, those same Scourges will re-roll 1s to wound too.

Dont think this is worth giving up the standard choppy Archon, but something to keep in mind Wink
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 10 2021, 15:33

@fisheyes wrote:
Sounds good.

Remember, if you are running a Realspace Raid (aka batalion with all 3 HQs) your Scourges will get reroll 1s to hit from the Archon Aura.

If you are running Black Heart, with the Writ of the Living Muse relic, those same Scourges will re-roll 1s to wound too.

Dont think this is worth giving up the standard choppy Archon, but something to keep in mind Wink

I think in theory it could potentially be worth it for 2-3 units of Dark Lance Scourges.

My main concern would be how long said Scourges would survive. Even in cover, they're only T3 with 3+ saves and 1 wound apiece.

Once they're dead, the Archon is basically stuck at the back of the field with nothing worthwhile to buff.

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JayCee
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 09:52

[quote="Soulless Samurai"]
@fisheyes wrote:
Sounds good.

Remember, if you are running a Realspace Raid (aka batalion with all 3 HQs) your Scourges will get reroll 1s to hit from the Archon Aura.

I can't bring myself to RSR as I just love Drazhar too much. Also it's still annoying on the Cult of Strife side of things in a RSR so I am still triple patrol. Am hoping that the Scourges will still perform even without that re-roll 1 aura.

Especially with the new codexes dropping pushing large 20-(wo)man infantry squads. Those Shredders will soon start earning their keep in many a Drukhari army I feel.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 14:09

@JayCee wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Sounds good.

Remember, if you are running a Realspace Raid (aka batalion with all 3 HQs) your Scourges will get reroll 1s to hit from the Archon Aura.

I can't bring myself to RSR as I just love Drazhar too much. Also it's still annoying on the Cult of Strife side of things in a RSR so I am still triple patrol. Am hoping that the Scourges will still perform even without that re-roll 1 aura.

Especially with the new codexes dropping pushing large 20-(wo)man infantry squads. Those Shredders will soon start earning their keep in many a Drukhari army I feel.

Do both! My current list design is RSR+Cult of Strife Patrol with Drazhar. It give you efficiency from the Archon, Cult of Strife stratagems, and you get to include Drazhar!

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 14:31

thats a pretty good return for a mere investment of 2CP Smile

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 14:48

TBH, I dont run RSR either. The call for Draz and CoS are just too strong for me to resist (I am one of those DT Liquifier guys after-all).

Just want to remind everyone of their options, so someone smarter than myself can come up with the "next big thing" that I can copy Wink
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Glass Battleaxe
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 21:10

Throwing my thoughts in here. I've recently been trying a 10-man squad with 4 Dark Lances - an unusual combo, I know, but it means there are both collateral models that I can afford to lose if they get shot at, and also guys with a more reasonable gun if they find themselves being charged (18 Shardcarbine shots will have a slightly better chance in overwatch than 4 Dark Lances).

Just my two cents.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 11 2021, 22:09

@Kalmah wrote:
thats a pretty good return for a mere investment of 2CP Smile

Especially once you factor in the difference between Alliance of Agony and Tolerated Ambition. A lot of Raiding Force lists are going to use 2 instances of Tolerated Ambition for CP where you can get the same effect with 1CP with Alliance of Agony. So in many cases, you're only 1 CP down from a Raiding Force version of the list.

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Gizamaluke
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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 12 2021, 00:49

Without aiming to go off topic I thought that if a CoS succubus wasn't your Warlord you couldn't use the Book of Rust DLC that makes CoS so strong and RSR forces the Archon of the Battallion to be the Warlord?

On topic Scourge were some of my favourite 8th edition units with Shredders/Blasters so I'll probably run a couple squads like that in 9th
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: 9th ed Scourges   9th ed Scourges - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 12 2021, 01:32

@Gizamaluke wrote:
Without aiming to go off topic I thought that if a CoS succubus wasn't your Warlord you couldn't use the Book of Rust DLC that makes CoS so strong and RSR forces the Archon of the Battallion to be the Warlord?

No that's not true. All that the CoS strats require is that you have a Strife detachment. So you can't use those strats if you only have CoS units in a RSR detachment, but if you include a separate detachment you absolutely can.

You're thinking of the relic/artifact of cruelty debate which is has (for some reason) become a point of contention. But even then, the wording for the CoS artifacts of cruelty is identical to the wording for the standard artifacts of cruelty in the Drukhari book. So there really shouldn't be a debate if Prizes of the Dark City allows you to take CoS artifacts. Rules as written, it 100% does. Some people are disallowing it anyway, but that's not a debate for this thread.
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