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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 07:08

Read the faction focus. Anyone else remember the Index focus oh so many years ago when they touted being able to shoot splinter pistols from a Raider locked in combat as game changing excitement for the new edition? I'm getting similar vibes from reading this. And I wasn't a big fan of our Index.

Raiding Force is something I suppose, but it just feels like a band aid to cover up how utterly incompatible the new detachment system is with the fundamental core of our army. The increased list flexibility it provides falls flat due to the fact that DE uniquely need at least two detachments to make a functioning army. If we were able to fit most of our units into a battalion without penalty like every other army and Raiding Force was just some alternative icing on the cake I'd be happy, but as it stands it seems like this is a mediocre fix executed poorly.

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ferrusmanus
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 08:36

hi to all, i am new follow the forum since 1 year.
As a former player of drukhari i always feel the difficult to bring down a mechanized and melee oriented army.
Usually i play 1 dethacment od Black heart (3 ravager and archon) one of witch of Red Grief and one halequin dethacment for Skyweavers support anti-tank.
Now this is impossible..Sad
I think the talos would be reconsider, but if we use the patrol rules we lost one ravager..or lost all witch and go with double BH patrol and one for coven..
The bad design of the codex force us to a triple dethachment..they say "the soup are death"..but indeed is the contrary, probably a sperhead dethacment..and a main battalion of crafworld perform better...but this idea has the feeling of playing eldar and not drukhari..for the current previews of rules i cannot see a funcional solution, i'll hope one of the first codex released..was ours
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 09:28

I think we will rock in 9th
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 13:54

@krayd wrote:
I am wondering if 8th edition artifacts such as 'the limits of command' and 'the rule of three' will be removed for 9th edition, due to the changes in list-building and CP allocation possibly mitigating some of the issues that 8th edition had which gave rise to these additional rules.

Ro3 ad such will for sure stay.

@ferrusmanus wrote:
hi to all, i am new follow the forum since 1 year.
As a former player of drukhari i always feel the difficult to bring down a mechanized and melee oriented army.
Usually i play 1 dethacment od Black heart (3 ravager and archon) one of witch of Red Grief and one halequin dethacment for Skyweavers support anti-tank.
Now this is impossible..Sad
I think the talos would be reconsider, but if we use the patrol rules we lost one ravager..or lost all witch and go with double BH patrol and one for coven..
The bad design of the codex force us to a triple dethachment..they say "the soup are death"..but indeed is the contrary, probably a sperhead dethacment..and a main battalion of crafworld perform better...but this idea has the feeling of playing eldar and not drukhari..for the current previews of rules i cannot see a funcional solution, i'll hope one of the first codex released..was ours

You can still do that tho, it will just cost CP now, you do not have to take Raiding Force, it is just another option DE has over everyone else. Many will and many wont take it.

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ferrusmanus
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 18:17

@amishprn86 wrote:
@krayd wrote:
I am wondering if 8th edition artifacts such as 'the limits of command' and 'the rule of three' will be removed for 9th edition, due to the changes in list-building and CP allocation possibly mitigating some of the issues that 8th edition had which gave rise to these additional rules.

Ro3 ad such will for sure stay.

@ferrusmanus wrote:
hi to all, i am new follow the forum since 1 year.
As a former player of drukhari i always feel the difficult to bring down a mechanized and melee oriented army.
Usually i play 1 dethacment od Black heart (3 ravager and archon) one of witch of Red Grief and one halequin dethacment for Skyweavers support anti-tank.
Now this is impossible..Sad
I think the talos would be reconsider, but if we use the patrol rules we lost one ravager..or lost all witch and go with double BH patrol and one for coven..
The bad design of the codex force us to a triple dethachment..they say "the soup are death"..but indeed is the contrary, probably a sperhead dethacment..and a main battalion of crafworld perform better...but this idea has the feeling of playing eldar and not drukhari..for the current previews of rules i cannot see a funcional solution, i'll hope one of the first codex released..was ours

You can still do that tho, it will just cost CP now, you do not have to take Raiding Force, it is just another option DE has over everyone else. Many will and many wont take it.

yes for sure but probably start with 8 cp instead of 12...and any other army can take a battalion plus a 2cp detatchment for every classic addition like sperhead of iron hand or iron fist thundfire..and start with 10 CP. In this manner we are penalized Sad
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 18:42

Yes that is true, but at least it is an option. BUt also Marines are going ot have to pay out the but for other things too like Knights, 3CP just to bring 1 knight (all non vanilla SM don't have to worry about breaking docs and many still brought a knight or a couple mini knights).

At least (until the faqs/amendments) we are not Chaos, they are for sure in a much worst place. My friends Ablaze army that was at -4CP in 8th will be at -9CP at minimal in 9th and its how the army is meant to be played by GW.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 19:22

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yes that is true, but at least it is an option. BUt also Marines are going ot have to pay out the but for other things too like Knights, 3CP just to bring 1 knight (all non vanilla SM don't have to worry about breaking docs and many still brought a knight or a couple mini knights).

At least (until the faqs/amendments) we are not Chaos, they are for sure in a much worst place. My friends Ablaze army that was at -4CP in 8th will be at -9CP at minimal in 9th and its how the army is meant to be played by GW.

I seriously hope Chaos gets a creative workaround. Chaos armies are designed around being played with each other to mitigate weaknesses. This was further incentivized in their PA.

Also, how stupid is the rule for Superheavy Detachments? It costs 6 CP to use Titanic units, which you get refunded if it contains your Warlord. Those allies better be expensive, because there is a lot of (Marine) stuff you could fit into a Patrol for just 2 CP.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 20:09

Yeah and LoW's also changed what Detachments they are in now too. Its will cost (so far) bonus CP to take a LoW, which hurts Chaos even moreso!

"Jason: There are two ways in which you can field Lords of War units such as Imperial Knights – either as a Super-heavy Detachment of 3-5 Knights, or singly as part of a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment (usually as an allied Detachment). Even though it may at first seem expensive (as Titanic units, it will cost 6 Command points to include a Super-heavy Detachment of Imperial Knights), it’s possible to get those CPs refunded, like the ‘core’ Patrol, Battalion and Brigade Detachments."

Chaos for now is 100% screwed unless you play pure DG with no Mortarion.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28 2020, 22:29

Now that I have had time to process, -2CP for a second detachment in a <2000 or game isn't the end of the world. At 2k three patrols are enough to fit everything I could want (transports may be an issue though)
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 12:30

have there been any rumors at all about the forgeworld change btw? I dont have any delusions that the tantalus will be great but id love it to at least be playable...
And im in the verge of buying a reaper now that it wont have a penalty to its shooting and has the blast keyword... I guess the only blast in our army unless they change the voidraven to be a real bomber like it should be
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 13:18

No rumors yet about FW

Most likely blasts: PGL, Shredders, Missiles, Stinger pod, Spirit Vortex, and all grenades.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 15:15

I think the reaper is a good call in 9th. I've been fiddling with Raiding Force list building (using 8th ed points). With so much less tax than in 8th we can create some really punchy lists, with moderate survivability and great mobility. Example:

Dark Technologists/ Experimental Creations Coven Patrol 1

Haemonculus, EC Whip, Liquifier, Nightmare Doll, Master Nemesine
2x 5 Wracks, Hexrifle
2x 4 Grotesques, 4 Liquifiers
2x Reaper
5x Raider, Disintegrator

Dark Technologists/ Experimental Creations Coven Patrol 1

Haemonculus, EC Whip, Liquifier, Animus Vitae
5 Wracks, Hexrifle
Reaper

Black Heart Patrol

Archon (Warlord), Labyrinthine Cunning, Venom Blade, Writ of the Living Muse
5 Kabalites
2 x Sslyth
2x Ravager, 3 Disintegrators

2 Raiders contain 4 Grotesques, 1 Haemonculus, and 1 Sslyth each. Tested it in a little TTS hammer in 2 games. Wiped 2 Knights turn 1 in one game and 25 Iron Hand intercessors turn 1 in the other. Had to use Vect to stop shenanigans in both. Obviously, with 9th points it'll lose some units, but on the small boards the vehicles are scary fast and hard to hide from.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 15:39

Interesting list no talos..but with a classic mechanize Ig list problably we lost 1 or 2 reaper on round one with bad luck on initiative.
When we remain only with 2 ravager.. the game is all a bag situation round by round..you manage to ge tin close combat with Grotesques and Liquifiers?..this gun cannod to even overwatch with 8' range..Sad
I, with my few testing and my little experience, feel the need of 2 squad of skyweaver for big guns..or is very difficult ot bring down necron or IG vehicle.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 16:02

@ferrusmanus wrote:
Interesting list no talos..but with a classic mechanize Ig  list problably we lost 1 or 2 reaper on round one with bad luck on initiative.
When we remain only with 2 ravager.. the game is all a bag situation round by round..you manage to ge tin close combat with Grotesques and Liquifiers?..this gun cannod to even overwatch with 8' range..Sad
I, with my few testing and my little experience, feel the need of 2 squad of skyweaver for big guns..or is very difficult ot bring down necron or IG vehicle.

Even after losing 2 reapers we still have 2 ravagers, 1 Reaper and the 5 Raiders. Because of Dark Technologists the Raiders are obnoxiously effective, as are the liquifiers. After accounting for 2 dead Reapers the rest of the list will do an average of 27 wounds to Leman Russ hulls. That's enough to kill 2 in response.

On top of that the liquifiers are very good at killing vehicles as well as troops in a Dark Technologist detachment. To close with the enemy one raider uses Enhanced Aether Sails and the other uses Fire and Fade. This often brings all 10 liquifiers into range on turn 1.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 16:06

When they update forgeworld, as they say they are going to do, I would think that the reaper will go Kabal only.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 16:09

@Skulnbonz wrote:
When they update forgeworld, as they say they are going to do, I would think that the reaper will go Kabal only.

Most likely. I'll then replace it with Taloi in the above list for only a small loss in effectiveness. I hope it deosn't though! It's nice having an option for Coven and Cult to have some supporting fire.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 17:04

@Drager wrote:
@ferrusmanus wrote:
Interesting list no talos..but with a classic mechanize Ig  list problably we lost 1 or 2 reaper on round one with bad luck on initiative.
When we remain only with 2 ravager.. the game is all a bag situation round by round..you manage to ge tin close combat with Grotesques and Liquifiers?..this gun cannod to even overwatch with 8' range..Sad
I, with my few testing and my little experience, feel the need of 2 squad of skyweaver for big guns..or is very difficult ot bring down necron or IG vehicle.

Even after losing 2 reapers we still have 2 ravagers, 1 Reaper and the 5 Raiders. Because of Dark Technologists the Raiders are obnoxiously effective, as are the liquifiers. After accounting for 2 dead Reapers the rest of the list will do an average of 27 wounds to Leman Russ hulls. That's enough to kill 2 in response.

On top of that the liquifiers are very good at killing vehicles as well as troops in a Dark Technologist detachment. To close with the enemy one raider uses Enhanced Aether Sails and the other uses Fire and Fade. This often brings all 10 liquifiers into range on turn 1.

thank for the reply but fire and fade can be used after shoot..so no you bring the liquifier embarked and fade afer vechicle shoot? and use andvancing in combination with Enhanced Aether Sails ? nice idea so we can move 14 for raider 7 for fire and fade and 8 for aether..so is 29 plus 8' for liquifier..37 not so close..to the leman they deploy very far away due the long range...interesting in combination with some reaver with blaster..ill'think on it
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 19:11

Today's GS Cult faction focus has a few new rules noted in it.

One is a change to unit coherence. Units with 6+ models have to have their models be within 2" of *two* other models from the same unit. This prevents single-file horde conga lines across the table.

Also, at the end of the morale phase, any models that are out of coherence range are removed as casualties.

There is also an 'Emergency Disembarkation' stratagem, which you can use if a transport is destroyed while completely surrounded by enemy models. It allows you to place your models within 6" of the transport instead of 3". The downside is that you lose models on 1s and 2s instead of just 1s when rolling for vehicle destruction casualties.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 19:28

Everyone talking about congo-lines meanwhile I'm thinking that this is ABSOLUTELY HUGE because it affects how units SCREEN.

Ground-based melee just received a huge buff, on top of how you play objectives + cast buffs i.e. Swarmlord.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 19:36

read all i feel the pain of one ravager lost...my belover painted army..
so is triple patrol
one black heart double ravager
one witch culd red grief and 2 unit of reaver
one with 3 talos one reaper..and some wrack,,
plus raider as point permit..
the only problem are the tax of the codex a 5 man unit of witch without meaning...and a 5 man unit of kalabile ..with no use..Sad
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 20:15

@ferrusmanus wrote:
@Drager wrote:
@ferrusmanus wrote:
Interesting list no talos..but with a classic mechanize Ig  list problably we lost 1 or 2 reaper on round one with bad luck on initiative.
When we remain only with 2 ravager.. the game is all a bag situation round by round..you manage to ge tin close combat with Grotesques and Liquifiers?..this gun cannod to even overwatch with 8' range..Sad
I, with my few testing and my little experience, feel the need of 2 squad of skyweaver for big guns..or is very difficult ot bring down necron or IG vehicle.

Even after losing 2 reapers we still have 2 ravagers, 1 Reaper and the 5 Raiders. Because of Dark Technologists the Raiders are obnoxiously effective, as are the liquifiers. After accounting for 2 dead Reapers the rest of the list will do an average of 27 wounds to Leman Russ hulls. That's enough to kill 2 in response.

On top of that the liquifiers are very good at killing vehicles as well as troops in a Dark Technologist detachment. To close with the enemy one raider uses Enhanced Aether Sails and the other uses Fire and Fade. This often brings all 10 liquifiers into range on turn 1.


thank for the reply but fire and fade can be used after shoot..so no you bring the liquifier embarked and fade afer vechicle shoot? and use andvancing in combination with Enhanced Aether Sails ? nice idea so we can move 14 for raider 7 for fire and fade and 8 for aether..so is 29 plus 8' for liquifier..37 not so close..to the leman they deploy very far away due the long range...interesting in combination with some reaver with blaster..ill'think on it

Sorry for not being clear, those 27 wounds did not include liquifier damage. I assumed they would be used elsewhere turn 1. Additionally the procedure with Fire and Fade is to Fire and Fade the raider, then shoot the liquifiers later.


Last edited by Drager on Mon Jun 29 2020, 20:45; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 29 2020, 20:38

@HERO wrote:
Everyone talking about congo-lines meanwhile I'm thinking that this is ABSOLUTELY HUGE because it affects how units SCREEN.

Ground-based melee just received a huge buff, on top of how you play objectives + cast buffs i.e. Swarmlord.

Kinda and kinda not. Its going to depend on if they are on smaller boards and when Coherency checks are. If it is at the end of the turn and you have 10 guardsmen you can do something like

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

Yes its 1/3 smaller but so is the table and with points going up, harder to multi charge, you might not even need as many screens now.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 30 2020, 00:22

@amishprn86 wrote:
@HERO wrote:
Everyone talking about congo-lines meanwhile I'm thinking that this is ABSOLUTELY HUGE because it affects how units SCREEN.

Ground-based melee just received a huge buff, on top of how you play objectives + cast buffs i.e. Swarmlord.

Kinda and kinda not. Its going to depend on if they are on smaller boards and when Coherency checks are. If it is at the end of the turn and you have 10 guardsmen you can do something like

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

Yes its 1/3 smaller but so is the table and with points going up, harder to multi charge, you might not even need as many screens now.

I've seen some neckbeards try to game this today with dogbone shaped placement and...

O = infantry base
. = relative coherency

O.O
O
O.O
O
O.O
O

Let's say you take shooting and take 2 casualties. Where do you pull and maintain coherency rules? This just means you pull from front and back. Can't pull 2 from back without breaking coherency. Can't pull from front/back without it either. This rule is trying to kill any form of congo-lining tactic ever.

Also, one more thing for good measure as it pertains to all Eldar players, regardless of kin.

40k 9th Editon - Page 14 7XpN0bHf80kPE9bU

Seriously GW, really?

40k 9th Editon - Page 14 10611110

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 30 2020, 00:24

At 5 PL, they're probably going to be 110 points or so.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 30 2020, 00:35

The sad thing about the Eradicators is they would legit be the single best unit in any Aeldari faction and they might not even be in the top three for Marines. Another outstanding job by GW and the play test team.
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