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 40k 9th Editon

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 17:47

no -1 to move and shoot? makes the reaper a bit better.
nerfs all our other vehicles.

yes, it NERFS them. When they give a special rule we alone had to everyone else, it is a nerf to our army.

Good thing they are giving us the ability to shoot twice with a heavy weapon to make up for it, right? right?

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 17:48

@yellabelly wrote:
Soup gets nerfed. Mono-Drukhari are caught in the cross fire because of our army composition.
We're a high mobility army. Boards get smaller making it easier for everyone else to cover ground.
Our tanks can fall back and shoot. Everyone else gets to shoot whilst in combat.
Our vehicles can move and shoot without penalty. Now all vehicles can ignore the penalty.

So they are all kinda small changes, but it adds up. The benefits for playing a Drukhari army are being eroded, and so far we haven't been thrown a bone where we actually benefit from rules changes at all.
I'm well aware it's early days, there is more info to come, and there may well be things which mitigate and compensate for the above. Raiding Party for example. I'm not trying to be salty or rip everything apart or claim the sky is falling. I'm just assessing the info we have as of this minute, and would be interested to discuss what we know about the new ruleset.

Sean Nayden and Brad Chester do a Paint stream on Mondays,  Brad playtests the game, and he has a habit of letting more slip than he should. He said that Drukhari will be happy with detachments, Also when Nayden dropped that he was redoing his Talos Brad wanted to buy his old ones on the spot.  He is testing a shinning spear, skyrunner, PoF Talos list with character support.

Every thing is not doom and gloom.  we might lose a few bits initially,  but we will be getting a new codex sooner or later and now that we lose a rule that points were taken into effect for we might get something new or maybe cost savings.

The rules for Monsters help us, and I think the Terrain rules will help us a lot also shrinking board size can help us. plus we have only seen like 10% of stuff.  I think we will be Ok.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 19:21

@dalamar I'm actually in agreement with you buddy! I know that what we've seen is minimal info, and it's too early to draw conclusions. I'm just wanting to get excited for 9th. I actually quite like a few of the changes in terms of core rules, and I think it will.improve the game. It's just putting a damper on things when these changes keep indirectly taking away from the army I love, and the only one I play.

I hadn't heard any of the stuff from Sean or Brad, so that's encouraging. I'm not ready to grab the pitchfork and flaming torch and head to Nottingham yet!

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 20:22

If they forget about DE as they always do, it will actually be GREAT. If you read the raiding party rule, it says:

"If your Battle-forged army includes at least 3
DRUKHARI Patrol Detachments, you receive
+4 Command Points. If your army includes 6
or more DRUKHARI Patrol Detachments, you
receive +8 Command Points instead."

That means that even if it cost CP to bring our patrols, we'll gain between 4 and 8 CP. Now, everybody keep quiet. They'll miss it.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 23:24

My only concern, is that with every single preview we've had so far, our faction becomes less unique and Imperials only gain as a result.

For example:
Smaller board > our mobility means less
More melee relevance due to smaller board > hit and run is decreased
All tanks ignore heavy > this was "our thing" as Dark Eldar, literally, not even Eldar had this
Hit modifiers capped > if this includes Lightning Fast Reflexes, it literally invalidates most of if not all Eldar factions defensively (Harlequins lol)
How CP will work > Until I see our Patrol rules fixed up for 9th, this makes our book really difficult to use

Eldar, and this meaning, the entire race (us, Eldar, Harlequins), pay the price of expensiveness due to these little nick-knacks of having high mobility, high agility (defensive hit mods), unique firepower (like really, what is a lance now?), at the cost of having T3 and T-shirts almost across the board. This fragility is offset because a clever and strong general can take advantage of the other strengths to come up at top.

The biggest reason I'm upset with all the news from 9th so far, is that GW looks to streamline a lot of the rules that make Eldar unique. That is what I'm upset about, because I'm worried that the more GW aims to streamline, the more of what makes us, us will be lost in the transition.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 09 2020, 23:51

The more rules i learn about 9th, the more i just want to have all Raiders and Talos even more so lol.

I wonder if Cronos 2nd weapon will be Blast like it was at one point in time.

If a lot of weapons goes blasts, it might be a way to say "We don't want these weapons to fire in melee". There is so much we still need to learn.

Double post merged - Cavash

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 10 2020, 17:23

We got Blasts today but before I comment on that I will wait for Terrain to come out tomorrow.
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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 10 2020, 20:42

Something I've noticed in the wording for heavy weapons; It states infantry only take penalties if they move. Maybe I'm going in too deep, but I'm reading that like they don't get the penalty if the transport they're in moves..

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 10 2020, 23:24

@Sarcron wrote:
Something I've noticed in the wording for heavy weapons; It states infantry only take penalties if they move. Maybe I'm going in too deep, but I'm reading that like they don't get the penalty if the transport they're in moves..

I suspect that they'd count as having moved and so would take the penalty, but this is with the substantial caveat that the open-topped rules are currently a clusterfuck and I hope they get reworked for 9th edition.

I share the sentiment with most of you that these changes feel generally bad for us (and most other high-mobility armies). I think they're going to be good for the health of the game as a whole but I certainly hope we get a bone tossed to us somehow.
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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11 2020, 12:46

So with the old codices and PA being valid until they can bring out new ones, I have to state a continual worry of mine.

PA, at least lore wise, is some big story event with mechanical changes behind it that enhances each armies ability to use Psyker powers, right? Thats half the reason the Necrons are such a big focus for 9th, because suddenly half of the empire can now blast stuff with their minds. And the Necrons can sense that. But arnt we now pretty much the only army that cant nativly have a psychic phase? Doesnt our lore strictly prohibit us in a way no other army is prohibited? Didnt they strip us of our anti-psyker war gear in the move from 5th?

Coming up against a strong psyker army is already painful, with them getting a whole extra phase while we twiddle our thumbs and lose troops or see theirs come back.

If they really intended PA to be a founding pillar of 9th, but we wont see a codex for ages, this could be really, really painful for us.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11 2020, 12:53

Its not all Psychic powers, its the name of the event that split the great rift. The story says (and if you read the DE part its goes over it alittle) that some just are chaning how the do things, like politics, training, or being "reborn", etc.., etc... B.c the Rift went F'ing crazy and thats a bad thing. And no 1/2 the imperial can not blast stuff with their minds.

No one says 2k is where you should "start" actually everyone says start lower like at 500-1k points to build up your army. There is no reason to jump into 2k unless you are wanting to do events.

You last stance, it could also be really good for us, 1/2 the PA traits are bad in 8th, but they might be really good in 9th b.c they were made with 9th in mind. For example, the whole Moral phase is rewritten, we just don't know how yet.

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11 2020, 15:30

@albions-angel wrote:
So with the old codices and PA being valid until they can bring out new ones, I have to state a continual worry of mine.

PA, at least lore wise, is some big story event with mechanical changes behind it that enhances each armies ability to use Psyker powers, right? Thats half the reason the Necrons are such a big focus for 9th, because suddenly half of the empire can now blast stuff with their minds. And the Necrons can sense that. But arnt we now pretty much the only army that cant nativly have a psychic phase? Doesnt our lore strictly prohibit us in a way no other army is prohibited? Didnt they strip us of our anti-psyker war gear in the move from 5th?

Coming up against a strong psyker army is already painful, with them getting a whole extra phase while we twiddle our thumbs and lose troops or see theirs come back.

If they really intended PA to be a founding pillar of 9th, but we wont see a codex for ages, this could be really, really painful for us.

Several other armies in the same boat of no psychics:

Ad Mech
Knights
Necrons
Tau
Khorne (though no one really plays mono-Khorne armies much)
Do Custodes have psykers? I don't actually know.
Also don't think Sisters do (though I believe the used to)

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11 2020, 18:00

Terrain preview is up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/11/terrain-rules-and-line-of-sightgw-homepage-post-1/
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11 2020, 19:15

Im so glad we can actually shoot things like titans through terrain and they cant exactly do the same back, and I do like the stacking abilities of terrain features giving each piece a unique feel, it might be more book keeping though
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Subsanity
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12 2020, 17:29

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/12/taking-flightgw-homepage-post-1/

Well if we get to keep fire and fade I know how my razorwings will run !
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Braden Campbell
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14 2020, 13:52

Oh... could it be that my antiquated "raven-style" jet fighters will finally come out of the hanger (cardboard box) in which they have sat for years, useless?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 03:52

@Braden Campbell wrote:
Oh... could it be that my antiquated "raven-style"  jet fighters will finally come out of the hanger (cardboard box) in which they have sat for years, useless?

Highly doubtful, unless Forgeworld decide to include them in their upcoming updates (which they won't). Looks like you're stuck proxying them as Razorwings.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 13:28

So much will depend on the point rebalancing. We have only seen two units, so we are extrapolating without much data

Intercessor 17>20 (17% increase)
Cultist 4>6 (50% increase).

DE will probably/hopefully be closer to the +17% increase side of things with our "elite" units like Grots/Talos. Transport point cost will certainly be an important factor.

Even if they stealth-nerf the DE by giving our abilities to all other armies, if we get a competitive point balance, we could still be laughing.

My crystal ball tells me that we will be facing a lot of elite armies in the future. We have a lot of good tools to counter that (dissies everywhere, poison for high T monsters). All just needs to be seen through the lense of the point balance.

I am excited though. Very happy about the new terrain rules (even though our boat geometry wont mesh well), and hopefully we get some quick response to unfair combos like we did in early 8th.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 14:07

@fisheyes wrote:
Even if they stealth-nerf the DE by giving our abilities to all other armies, if we get a competitive point balance, we could still be laughing.

I wouldn't be. I like DE being the fragile but fast eldar. I really don't want the character of our army to be: yes they're slower than CW eldar. No, they can't shoot as well as CW eldar. Yes, they're much, much more fragile. No they don't have anything unique about their playstyle, but at least they're dirt cheap!

Drukhari: the unremarkable yet inexpensive Eldar. Goody.
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Braden Campbell
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 14:10

@krayd wrote:


Highly doubtful, unless Forgeworld decide to include them in their upcoming updates (which they won't). Looks like you're stuck proxying them as Razorwings.

That would also be acceptable if there's incentive enough to bother taking planes to begin with...
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 14:39

FW is basically done with 40k unless it also works for 30k and specialist games. They have been removing models at a consistent rate over the past year (not just 40k but also aos).

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 20:16

One of the reasons that I got into the True Kin is our ambivalence to life. Throw another venom into the grinder, who cares as long as the objective is secure!

So long as we dont get hammered by the restrictions in number of detatchments, I will be happy (along with equivalent point re balancing).

The leaks for the Necron Silent King make me think that Vect may be close. Should get a model by the end of 11th Edition Razz
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 16 2020, 12:20

They just released some updates for Necrons in 9th on Community. Warriors going from 11 pts to 12 pts. This gives me hope that our Grots/Taloi will get a reasonable point increase.
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 16 2020, 16:24

@fisheyes wrote:
They just released some updates for Necrons in 9th on Community. Warriors going from 11 pts to 12 pts. This gives me hope that our Grots/Taloi will get a reasonable point increase.

yes, that surprised the heck out of me too.

Means that they are in fact re-balancing points at the same time here (contrary to the earlier discussion in this thread where many, including me, thought that there wouldn't be a huge shift). So will be interesting to see what all does happen.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 9th Editon   40k 9th Editon - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 16 2020, 19:22

I think some units are going up and some are not. I can't see units that no one took in 8th will go up, like Hellions, even with terrain and a smaller table i can not see them being better than say Reavers b.c of blasts and AP, etc..

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