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 mass raider obsession

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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeFri May 15 2020, 18:13

If I wanted to make an army with as many disintegrator raiders as possible (around 10-12) which obsession should I choose?

I hesitate between black heart for the feel no pain and the muse, dark technomancer, artist of the flesh, test of skill.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4158
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeFri May 15 2020, 19:23

There is only 2 imo, either Kabal BH for 6+++ and Re-rolls, or Coven DT for +1T and +1W/+1D on each weapons.

You don't really need ignore cover or movement as you are -3ap and 36" range with 10" movement.

Kabals are more survivable and will make hitting much eaiser, but over all the damage is slightly lower, best vs hordes do to more hits and kabals poison. With 10 Raiders thats 100 wounds, out of 100 wounds you'' save 16.7 of them via FnP, this means you'll have 1.6 more alive compare to Coven, with 12 Raiders you'll have 2 alive over Coven. But you damage high toughness units (knights, tanks, etc..) at 1/2 as often.
Having Kabal warriors can help with range anti-horde, helps a lot vs Tau drones, etc.. but also are really easily killed, at least they are cheap
NOTE: Coven can not take Ravagers, so in Kabals you'll also have 3 Ravagers with rr1's to hit and to wound, this will make up some of the damage lost in general.

Coven will be better vs light gun fire like Str3-6 compare to Kabal, but no FnP so that'll equal out, tho it is not as survivable vs high damage high str. B.c you are getting +1 to the wound and damage, you can hurt higher toughness units easier and deals more wounds to them as well, but at a small risk of taking 1 wound. Wracks are a lot tougher and can melee well for their points, no range weapons tho. But you can throw them right at the opponent and melee turn 2, this is very important to keeping you alive for longer. Also things like WW's and Eliminators can not kill a 5man Wrack unit with 1 turn of shooting, but they can kill Kabals.
NOTE: Coven can also have Talos, a very tough and hard hitting unit.
NOTE: Coven (and kabal but works better on coven) can have a Reaper its an alternative Ravager. D6 lance shots or 2D6 Str 6 shots that shots a unit from advancing. It is 12 wounds as well.


List building for kabal
If you wanted as many Dissie cannons as you can and nothing else then Kabals, if you wanted high damage raiders then Coven.

Kabal can have 12 Raiders in 2 battalions and still be only at 1600pts, take a Spearhead with an Archon and 3 Ravagers (the Visarch as a 4th HQ for a battalion) now you have 21 Dissie cannons at 1990pts.

Take out the Ravagers and instead take 2 Lhameans, with 3 Archons, and 12 Kabals, in total that will be 17 Raiders at 1986pts.

Personally i like 3 Ravagers.


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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeFri May 15 2020, 20:27

Even with mass raider, I would probably squeeze a kabal spearhead for the 3 ravagers. DT is indead very strong, but when I tried it it kind of underperformed with my dissie shots. I think with disintegratos shot, it's not worth that much. Don't you think artist of flesh would make my raiders much more survivable?
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeFri May 15 2020, 21:05

I play 10 DT raiders and 6 Talos. Mine do great. If you want Coven for survivability then -1D would be good, combine with +1T it is very survivable. You just don't get as strong of shots nor and re-rolls. But if you value survivability over damage, 100% go for it! I also have a high marines meta, wounding marines on 2+ is insanely good lol.


lol, now i want to try a spearhead of 3 Reapers with Artists of the Flesh.

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hydranixx
Wych
hydranixx

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeSat May 16 2020, 12:31

While I've not used Artist Raiders yet, I have experimented with Artist Venoms quite a lot, and they're absolutely brilliant. It's effectively doubling your wounds against weapons with Damage 2 - which there are tonnes right now. Being able to increase their Toughness to 6 can be a big deal too. My Venoms have routinely survived volleys from Avenger Gatling Cannons, and once I even lucked out and survived a charge from a Smash Captain. I see no reason Raiders wouldn't be equally as strong with it.

It's just a little tricky finding a way to squeeze all your transports into the detachment. You can run a Haemonculi + Wrack battalion, though Artists doesn't really benefit Wracks very much so it does feel watered down. Personally, I find my lists gravitating towards a Spearhead of Talos, occasioanlly with a couple units of Mandrakes, so I usually bring in 4-6 Venoms.

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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeSat May 16 2020, 15:51

I really haven't played mass raiders, the most I think I've included is 4. But I'd advocate for Dark Technomancer raiders over Black Heart, just for the freedom it gives you. I don't mind having a single archon and a cluster of vehicles, but it feels like I'm tethering myself if I start to invest in that as a core list concept.

Dark Technomancers, on the other hand, have enhanced shooting power whenever and wherever they need it. With Hungry for Flesh for +1 charge distance to absorb overwatches, it really opens up the board and lets raiders do raider things.
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Azdrubael
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Azdrubael

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeSat May 16 2020, 16:35

I use Soulbound with whatever fits with rest of the army. Dark Mirth in my case, mostly for trick with Voidraven. I use it as giant distraction carnifex.

Ravagers under test of skill.

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Sarcron
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Sarcron

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeSun May 17 2020, 21:46

@Azdrubael wrote:
I use Soulbound with whatever fits with rest of the army. Dark Mirth in my case, mostly for trick with Voidraven. I use it as giant distraction carnifex.

Ravagers under test of skill.

Uh, maybe I misunderstand you there, but are you saying you're running your ravagers as test of skill?
As wych cult?

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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeMon May 18 2020, 15:27

Oh SNAP! Ravagers are Kabal only sadly Crying or Very sad

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JackKnife01
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JackKnife01

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PostSubject: Re: mass raider obsession   mass raider obsession I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15 2020, 08:34

FS is good for Raiders as well. Not only do they ignore cover, but increases their movement by three inches, further the guys onboard re-roll their rapid-fire weapons, and I believe also ignore cover.
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