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 Alliance of Agony question

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Lost Vyper
Kabalite Warrior
Lost Vyper

Posts : 238
Join date : 2014-10-29

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PostSubject: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 06:45

Hi,

Alliance of Agony was first easy, with 1CP you could give additional Warlord traits. Then it needed BOTH, Succubus and Haemonculus with Archon to work. Now i´m seeing BATREPS, where people just spend a CP to give JUST Succubus a Warlord trait, whilst having fe. Kabal Batallion with two Archons and a Patrol of Wych cult. Did i miss something? I checked the latest FAQ and it says "Can be used just once in a game".

Have i dreamed the middle restriction Wink

Opinions please, this could benefit fe. 3++ for a Succubus or +d3 CP´s from the Haemie

- LV
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Gelmir
Kabalite Warrior
Gelmir

Posts : 150
Join date : 2018-01-06
Location : near Rotterdam

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 08:40

As far as I remember, it requires an Archon to be your warlord, and you can give a warlord trait to one Succubus and/OR an Haemonculus. It doesn't need both, although you'll benefit more from the Alliance if you have both because it gives you 2 extra warlord traits instead of just one like in your example. The only one that's mandatory is the Archon.

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fisheyes
Hekatrix
fisheyes

Posts : 1290
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 15:51

I also have always played it as And/Or.

Only requirement is that your real warlord is an Archon
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The Strange Dark One
Wych
The Strange Dark One

Posts : 717
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 15:58

@fisheyes wrote:
I also have always played it as And/Or.

Only requirement is that your real warlord is an Archon

This was also my understanding.
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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

Posts : 867
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 16:37

the strat states:
Quote :
Use this Stratagem before the battle if your Warlord is an
Archon. Choose up to one HAEMONCULUS and up to one
SUCCUBUS from your army. Generate a Warlord Trait for
each character you chose (note that these characters are
only regarded as your Warlord for the purposes of these
Warlord Traits).

so RAW, you need both a succubus and a haemonculus. the word "or" is not in there.
No one I know plays it this way
I do not play it this way
It should never be played this way
but if someone complains, the rules back them, not us.

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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

Posts : 290
Join date : 2018-11-05
Location : Hunting Xenos

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 22:14

@Skulnbonz wrote:
the strat states:
Quote :
Use this Stratagem before the battle if your Warlord is an
Archon. Choose up to one HAEMONCULUS and up to one
SUCCUBUS from your army. Generate a Warlord Trait for
each character you chose (note that these characters are
only regarded as your Warlord for the purposes of these
Warlord Traits).

so RAW, you need both a succubus and a haemonculus. the word "or" is not in there.
No one I know plays it this way
I do not play it this way
It should never be played this way
but if someone complains, the rules back them, not us.

It says "choose up to one haem and up to one succu" This is a minimum of zero, it then states "generate a warlord trait for each character you chose", it expects you to not choose both.

You can do either or, it even states it.

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Silverglade
Sybarite
Silverglade

Posts : 491
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08 2020, 22:37

Yup Sarcron has it right. That's what up to would mean RAW (and RAI). So you're good to go with just one or the other.
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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

Posts : 368
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09 2020, 06:33

Heck, you can even play it if you don't have a Succubus or Haemonculus. You just shouldn't, unless you hate having command points and want to get rid of them as fast as possible.


Last edited by sekac on Thu Apr 09 2020, 23:29; edited 1 time in total
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Skulnbonz
Wych
Skulnbonz

Posts : 867
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09 2020, 12:41

@Sarcron wrote:

It says "choose up to one haem and up to one succu" This is a minimum of zero, it then states "generate a warlord trait for each character you chose", it expects you to not choose both.

it  does not say you MAY chose up to one... it says CHOSE up to one.
the words "Up to" need to be removed, or the word "may" needs to be added.
Lets agree it is annoyingly written.
I do know I was ruled against at a tournament over this rule. thats why I think it sucks.

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Last edited by Skulnbonz on Thu Apr 09 2020, 16:27; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4253
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09 2020, 14:29

Its just written in a way you are not used to, its a common way to word things in other aspects of life. It say Up to 1, that means 0 or 1.

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Silverglade
Sybarite
Silverglade

Posts : 491
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09 2020, 18:22

So what does "up to one" mean if it cannot mean less than one?

Unfortunate that you were ruled against on that one.   I think you really got screwed on that one as I really can't see how it can be interpreted any other way than 0 or 1.
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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

Posts : 368
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09 2020, 23:34

@Silverglade wrote:
So what does "up to one" mean if it cannot mean less than one?

Unfortunate that you were ruled against on that one.   I think you really got screwed on that one as I really can't see how it can be interpreted any other way than 0 or 1.

Yeah, he got hosed. My assumption is the judge reasoned that you must first have the succubus to choose not to use it. That is to say, you must first have a succubus/haemonculus, and if you do, you may choose to nominate 1 of each or not. A fairly inane interpretation, because why on earth would anyone choose not to benefit from a stratagem they played?? If there was any downside at all, they might have a point.

It definitely could be worded better. Especially considering, RAW, you can play it even if your Archon is Ynnari, which I'm certain was not intended.
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Lost Vyper
Kabalite Warrior
Lost Vyper

Posts : 238
Join date : 2014-10-29

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PostSubject: Re: Alliance of Agony question   Alliance of Agony question I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 14 2020, 10:46

Thanks, for (kinda Smile ) clarifying the issue, i can see it now played with just one other model. Usually i play a Batallion of Kabal and Haemie detachment, this is just an easy way to get that re-roll for the Haemie and d3 CP´s. But contemplating playing a Wych Patrol with a huge Wych bomb, that 3++ for the Succubus could come in handy...
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