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 How to beat Custodes?

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red_head
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2011-10-28
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PostSubject: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 20 2020, 21:14

So after a bit of back and forth, I will be playing against Custodes tomorrow (I know, short notice, but my opponent had a few armies he's eager to try and finally decided that it'll be the golden boys).
My 1.5k list for tomorrow basically consists of 2 battalions, one Kabal battalion full of Warriors with blasters riding in Raiders and two Venoms, as well as a Cult battalion consisting of 2 Succubi and 3x8 Wyches.
He'll be fielding Trajann Valoris, A Shield Captain on bike, 3x3 Custodian Guards (2x spear, 1x shield), a Vexilus Praetor, 5 Wardens and 4 Allarus Terminators.

I know I'll have to use line of sight blocking terrain, screening/ deepstrike denial and my mobility to stay on top of things. Since his bike is the most mobile part of his force, I guess I should focus my efforts on it first, making sure that everything else is relatively easy to outmaneuver. I know I will probably lose a bunch of transports nonetheless, since I won't be able to hide everything. The plan is to deepstrike one of my Succubi and a squad of Wyches (didn't have enough points for a transport for them), get them into combat with hyperstimm backlash (Grave Lotus -> S5) and tie up one unit of Custodians to get them out of the fight if possible. The Shardnet and Impaler should also help with that.

4 of the 6 Raiders are equipped with Dissies (the remaining 2 have Lances since I don't have the dissie bits available, bought some of the Raiders second hand), I have a bunch of blasters (which will probably die due to their short range).

Are there any other tips and tricks you could share? Anything in terms of target priority?

PS: This is my list- which I won't really change anymore, since I want to test it against multiple armies tomorrow and next week:

Spoiler:
 
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Sarcron
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 21 2020, 20:07

Assuming this isn't too late;

Custodes are spooky. Very spooky. Don't get into close range without being assured you will kill them that turn. Apart from the bikes, they have limited mobility, so you can very easily run circles around them. Focus anything that can keep up with, before whittling down troops. Generally ignore characters because you won't be able to shoot them, unless they're a bike.

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red_head
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2011-10-28
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 21 2020, 21:56

Well, I played the game today. My dice rolls were absolutely abysmal, but it was fun^^
I don't know off the top of my head what the mission was called, but it's the one where you set up 6 objectives and 2-5 disappear over the course of the game.
While my mobility was definitely a big plus, my set-up of the objectives played too much into his hands, not placing them far enough apart from each other. He actually managed to bind a squad of Kabalites, a squad of Wyches and my Warlord in close combat using a squad of Custodian Guards, Trajann and his bike. My Wyches whittled them down over the course of a few turns (his bike remained in combat just for fun- warlord on warlord^^) and they surprised both of us with their durability.
The deep striking Scourges did nothing, since I rolled a total of 4 Shredder shots and didn't wound once. The deep striking Wyches were stopped dead in their tracks by a stratagem reducing my charge movement by 6" (originally just 1, but he re-rolled it for a CP, getting a 6 and making a charge impossible). So basically, the Succubus and Wyches, for whom I had spent 5 CP in total, were shot to pieces in his phase.
The Wyches were definitely my MVPs, followed by basically all my poison. The volume of shots was basically what made him fail his saves. I'll have to get a few more venoms for my warriors and another squad of Wyches, putting all of them into Raiders.

I lost the game with 15 to 19 VP, but it was a blast and I learned quite a bit.
After all, it was just my third game in 8th Edition, my second with just 2 players total, my first at 1500 pts and all in all I'd say it went quite well. Looking forward to more games.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 12:02

Seems like a tough match-up. All the 2+ and 3++ would have been a good counter to poison and Dissies.

What was your opinion of Dissis vs DL? I expect the Dissies to have done more than the DL, but have not played Custodes with DE before.

Did you miss having Vect? Would that have made a difference (ie stopping his reduce-movement grenade stratagem)
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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 14:13

To be fair, the poison what was caused the most damage in terms of shooting. The sheer volume of shots coming from the Venoms was probably my #1 damage dealer in the shooting phase. I should have used the stratagem which allows me to cause mortal wounds using my phantasm grenade launchers, too.
The Dissies were much better and more reliable than the DL. However, since I bought a couple of Raiders second hand, I don't have the Dissies for two of them. I still played as many as I could using Dissies, though. And I am glad I did, even though my bad luck (which was seriously ridiculous and ternacious) made most of their shots useless throughout the game.
Vect would have probably been great in that situation, allowing me to counter that. However, I don't really like the thought of playing Black Heart just to do that. And I love the dynamics of the Flayed Skull obsession. It really fits my idea of how my Kabal would be on the battlefield.
Even though Vect would have probably resulted in a LOT more trouble for the flank at which the Wyches and Succubus appeared.
Still, I won't be gambling like that again, I'll use Raiders for all my Wyches in the future.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 16:08

You had enough transports to put everything in, I would have made sure everything had a ride. Remember you can put 2 squads in a Raider if you want.

Next time, I think I would reduce the 10 man squad down to 5 and finish flushing out upgrades on units.

You do need some ranged weaponry like a Ravager or a Flier in there too. Our troops are great because they are cheap, but with only troops essentially, because they are squishy, they will just die. We need to be able to overload opponents with targets. Having some of that ranged firepower will not only take some fire away from those boats of Troops, but will also give you some 1st/2nd turn firepower downhill.

I have fought Custodes a few times with DE and find them to be frustrating. They have so many good saves, but their model count is so low. Every model they lose, they feel it. Overkilling units and shooting entire units 100% dead is key. You will find by rounds 3 and 4, they have 2-3 units left while you can use your mobility (barring you have some) to overwhelm, flank, and capture at your will.
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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 16:40

I am aware that I could have put everything inside transports. There are two reasons why I didn't:
1) I wanted to see if deepstriking Wyches could be useful
2) I currently have 2 Raiders with crews modelled as Wyches, the rest is modelled as Kabalite Warriors. I want all the Wyches to ride in their respective Raiders and the same with Kabalite troops and their respective transports. Might seem silly, but it's how I want to do it.

I am aware that overkilling is the way to go. However, with the board being as densely packed with LOS blocking terrain as it was and the objectives spread out the way they were, overwhelming firepower was neither feasible nor my priority.

I agree that I need Ravagers and/ or flyers. And I am planning on getting some down the road.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 20:24

Well it seems clearly you have everything figured out already! And only after 3 games of 8th! Good luck next time!
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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 23 2020, 21:09

I'm far from having everything figured out, but it's a journey of learning, so we'll see.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 24 2020, 11:04

TY for sharing, surprised that splinter was your #1 damage dealer.

Always hard to judge where to put your troops. I too would have left them on the table to screen the vehicles. I dont think you NEED Ravagers, but having a few RWJF in your Wych detachment would not be a bad thing.

I have been thinking of doing away with Ravagers all together, and replacing them with a hoard of Raiders. Your list seems to be a decent jumping point for that tactic.
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red_head
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PostSubject: Re: How to beat Custodes?   How to beat Custodes? I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 24 2020, 11:38

Well, I guess if your entire army is embarked upon transports with 1/3 of a Ravager's firepower instead of Venoms, it might be worth it. However, a bit of concentrated fire never hurt, either. So who knows?
I absolutely love the Voidraven Bomber's model and I think I'd probably prefer it in terms of rules, too. I'm just unsure whether I could effectively use them and keep them from being forced off the board or not. Guess it's all a matter of practice.

The phrase that came to mind whenever my poison weaponry took down another golden boi was "death by a thousand cuts". At least in that match, volume of fire was what worked in my favour the most. If the opponent has to pass dozens of saves, some of them are bound to fail.
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