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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 00:11

So after taking a considerable break from 40k, I've decided to give it another go.

I'm aiming to finish the DE Daemons project I started a while back and as such I'm looking for feedback with a list:

Flayed Skull Battalion (984pts, +5CP)
Archon w/ Agoniser, Splinter Pistol - 59
Archon w/ Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol - 57
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Mandrakes - 75
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65

Ynnari Harlequin Outrider (516pts, +1CP)
Shadowseer w/ Neuro Disruptor, Mirrorgaze, Gaze of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix - 115 (Warlord: Lord of Rebirth)
The Visarch - 80
Death Jester - 45 (Exalted of Ynead: Walker of Many Paths)
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92

1500pts (8CPs)

- The Visarch and 2 Archons will go together in the Venom. I might disembark one Archon to buff the Ravagers, otherwise all three HQs will act as mini-Death Star and try to kill or tie up some important units. I consider the entire unit fully expendable so if my opponent focuses them down the impact to my army as a whole will be negligible.
- Mandrakes are mostly here because they're part of the overall theme. They're a flexible unit that will deep strike wherever needed.
- Venoms and Warriors will use their mobility to spread out and go wherever they're needed. Ideally, they'll fire Blasters at Monsters/Vehicles and poison at lightly-armoured Infantry. Since they lose the Ignores Cover bonus when they disembark, enemies in cover will be given priority.
- Ravagers will either help taking down monsters/vehicles or else go after heavy infantry.
- On the Harlequin (read: Daemon) side, Skyweavers will aim to use their Haywire against the heaviest vehicles and then - if possible - charge some infantry with their Glaives.
- The Death Jester will sit on an objective and aim to fire his gun each turn.
- The Shadowseer is quite flexible. He'll aim to get within 18" of the enemy to start causing wounds with his weapons and psychic powers. Depending on the circumstances, he can either use both Smite and Gaze for this purpose or he can use one for that and the other to heal/raise the Skyweavers with Word of the Phoenix. Finally, with a 4++/5+++ and -1 to both hit and wound he's fairly tanky and can freely jump in and out of combat. Hence, I might use him to tie up some enemy units should the option present itself. However, as my Warlord and source of Mortal Wounds, he's one of the few pieces in my army that I don't consider expendable, so I'll be careful of throwing him in harm's way.

(I also had a similar list with Yncarne in place of the Visarch, but that necessitated removing both the Mandrakes and one of the Ravagers.)


Any thoughts?

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 00:34

A few things that jump out at me about this list;


  • One unit of big Skyweavers is considerably more effective than three small units, because their stratagems get amplified in strength (especially Prismatic Blur). Changing that would require altering your Harlequin detachment, but...
  • I'm not sure what that Harlequin detachment being Ynnari is really getting you. It makes your Shadowseer a bit more durable (but you lose out on the fantastic Twilight Pathways psychic power) and gives your Death Jester a warlord trait. That isn't that helpful; Soaring Spite or Frozen Stars would help them a lot more.
  • The Visarch isn't contributing a lot here. He's an okay beatstick, but we've got a fantastic beatstick in the shape of Drazhar now and if you can slot him in somewhere you should.
  • The Drukhari detachment is... fine. I've gone off vehicles in the Marine meta, but if you want to run them then there isn't much to tweak here.


For broad changes, I'd suggest dropping one Archon, the Visarch, a unit of Kabalites, and a Venom, and replacing them with Drazhar, a Death Jester and a Solitaire while also combining the Skyweavers into a single unit. The difference in combat strength will be very noticeable.
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hydranixx
Wych
hydranixx

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 01:04

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

Flayed Skull Battalion (984pts, +5CP)
Archon w/ Agoniser, Splinter Pistol - 59
Archon w/ Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol - 57
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Mandrakes - 75
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65

Sure, I can get behind this.

@Soulless Samurai wrote:

Ynnari Harlequin Outrider (516pts, +1CP)
Shadowseer w/ Neuro Disruptor, Mirrorgaze, Gaze of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix - 115 (Warlord: Lord of Rebirth)
The Visarch - 80
Death Jester - 45 (Exalted of Ynead: Walker of Many Paths)
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92
2x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 92

But I can't get behind this.

I agree with Burnage that Skyweavers really want to to be in a blob of 5-6 to maximise their buffs - Twilight Pathways, Prismastic Blur, Lightning Fast Reactions, Cegorach's Jest etc etc. Either way, I'd aim to stay true Harlequins though, not Ynnari, as you give up a lot of bonuses for relatively little gain.

I suggest changing the detachment around to run a Frozen Stars Vanguard with 6 Skyweavers in one blob, a Solitaire, 2 DJs and either a Shadowseer or a Troupe Master or both.

The Troupe Master is a bit underrated as we usually want to reach for the Shadowseer, but when you're crashing into melee with 24 attacks from your Frozen Star Skyweavers, rerolling all wound rolls is very, very strong.

And yeah, bring Drazhar.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 01:15

@Burnage wrote:
A few things that jump out at me about this list;

One unit of big Skyweavers is considerably more effective than three small units, because their stratagems get amplified in strength (especially Prismatic Blur). Changing that would require altering your Harlequin detachment

That's a fair point. I'll try and cut something for a unit of Harlequins, so that I can replace the Outrider with a Patrol. Or for 2 more Death Jesters to form a Vanguard.


@Burnage wrote:
I'm not sure what that Harlequin detachment being Ynnari is really getting you. It makes your Shadowseer a bit more durable (but you lose out on the fantastic Twilight Pathways psychic power) and gives your Death Jester a warlord trait. That isn't that helpful; Soaring Spite or Frozen Stars would help them a lot more.  


To be honest, the Ynnari aspect was done far more for flavour reasons than for optimising power.

The idea is that the Harlequin detachment actually represents various Daemons or other Mandrake-like creatures, e.g.:

Spoiler:
 

To that end, I thought Ynnari fit the flavour and theme a bit better and would help give them a different feel to regular Harlequins.


@Burnage wrote:

[*]The Visarch isn't contributing a lot here. He's an okay beatstick, but we've got a fantastic beatstick in the shape of Drazhar now and if you can slot him in somewhere you should.



[*]

Ideally, I wouldn't include him at all but (as above) I wanted the Harlequins to be Ynnari which, regrettably, means including one of the Ynnari characters.

That said, I'm open to cutting some stuff and including The Yncarne instead. He's more of a point sink but he also seems a lot more likely to actually accomplish something than The Visarch.


@Burnage wrote:

The Drukhari detachment is... fine. I've gone off vehicles in the Marine meta, but if you want to run them then there isn't much to tweak here.


I stopped playing for a while so i think the Marine meta has largely passed me by. I'll have to see what it's like at my local club.

Possibly I'll be back in a few weeks asking for advice for a vehicle-less list. Razz


@Burnage wrote:

For broad changes, I'd suggest dropping one Archon, the Visarch, a unit of Kabalites, and a Venom, and replacing them with Drazhar, a Death Jester and a Solitaire while also combining the Skyweavers into a single unit. The difference in combat strength will be very noticeable.

Ideally, I'd like to keep the Harlequins Ynnari for the aforementioned flavour reasons but otherwise I'm happy to make changes along those lines.

Thanks for the advice.

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hydranixx
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hydranixx

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 01:21

You could try make Ynnari work if you opted for the Yncarne. Although it's expensive, it legitimately hits hard enough and is mobile enough to build most of a list around.

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 13:57

Okay, what about something like this:

Flayed Skull Battalion (774pts, +5CP)
Drazhar - 100
Archon w/ Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol - 57
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Mandrakes - 75
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator, Shock Prow - 141
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65

Ynnari Harlequin Patrol(726pts, +0CP)
Shadowseer w/ Neuro Disruptor, Mirrorgaze, Gaze of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix - 115 (Warlord: Lord of Rebirth)
5 Harlequin Troupe - 55
The Yncarne w/ Unbind Souls, Ancestor's Grace - 280
6x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 276

1500pts (8CPs)

I've dropped an Archon, The Visarch, the Death Jester, a Ravager, and a unit of Warriors and their Venom. In their place I've added Drazhar, The Yncarne, a unit of Harlequins (just to make the Patrol legal), and have merged the Skyweavers into a single unit.

Does this look any better?

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hydranixx
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hydranixx

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 18:56

I think so, yeah.

I'd probably still prefer a 'standard' Harlequin Masque, but at least in this list you have several competent melee threats, most of which are characters which can be screened, and lots of small, fast units to feed the Yncarne.

Just make sure you're being very careful with the Skyweavers, as they're a big investment, and they'll treat you well.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 19:16

Just another thought to throw in the mix, I see you're set on Ynnarri clowns, but why not take Yvraine? It would save you a lot of pts by dropping the shadowseer from the list, Yvraine is a stronger psyker anyway so that's no big loss, and I don't particularly think the Yncarne is the best fit for this list anyway. That would open up a few choices, such as throwing in a second ravager again as I think one isn't very effective given it's the first target for sure. Or you could go a different route, make give the harlequin troupe some weapons and a transport, or drop the troupes all together and go for a vanguard of 2 deathjesters and a soltaire.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 19:51

@hydranixx wrote:
I think so, yeah.

I'd probably still prefer a 'standard' Harlequin Masque, but at least in this list you have several competent melee threats, most of which are characters which can be screened, and lots of small, fast units to feed the Yncarne.

Like I said, I'd prefer to keep it Ynnari for now.

However, I'll keep my eye open in case Harlequins get anything in PA that would also fit the theme.

Because I really would like the movement spell regular Harlequins get. And to be able to use my Solitaire. Razz


@hydranixx wrote:

Just make sure you're being very careful with the Skyweavers, as they're a big investment, and they'll treat you well.  


Yeah, I try to avoid deathstars or lists that have keystone units, but I think the Skyweavers in this list are a unit that I absolutely cannot afford to lose.


@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Just another thought to throw in the mix, I see you're set on Ynnarri clowns, but why not take Yvraine? It would save you a lot of pts by dropping the shadowseer from the list, Yvraine is a stronger psyker anyway so that's no big loss, and I don't particularly think the Yncarne is the best fit for this list anyway. That would open up a few choices, such as throwing in a second ravager again as I think one isn't very effective given it's the first target for sure. Or you could go a different route, make give the harlequin troupe some weapons and a transport, or drop the troupes all together and go for a vanguard of 2 deathjesters and a soltaire.

Unfortunately, unless I've missed a change of rules, I can't include a Solitaire in a Ynnari detachment.  Sad

So if I want a Vanguard it will have to be 3 Death Jesters.

With regard to the Shadowseer, the reason for including him is that I wanted a caster as my Warlord but not a special character. I know it's not ideal but I'd like to get some use out of the model I've been making.

That being said, if it's any help then I'm willing to include Yvraine in place of The Yncarne in order to free up some points for a second Raveger and such. Maybe something like this:

Flayed Skull Battalion (774pts, +5CP)
Drazhar - 100
Archon w/ Huskblade, Splinter Pistol - 61
1 Lhamaean - 15
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47
5 Mandrakes - 75
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Ravager w/ 3x Disintegrator - 140
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65
Venom w/ Splinter Rifle - 65

Ynnari Harlequin Patrol(726pts, +0CP)
Shadowseer w/ Neuro Disruptor, Mirrorgaze, Gaze of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix - 115 (Warlord: Lord of Rebirth)
Yvraine w/ Unbind Souls, Ancestor's Grace - 115
5 Harlequin Troupe - 55
6x Skyweaver w/ Haywire Cannon, Zephyrglaive - 276

1500pts (8CPs)

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Lord Weston
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 20 2020, 15:47

Those conversions are incredible Soulless I love the idea it's totally inspired. This list looks incredibly similar to one a friend and I ran at a doubles event last weekend. It was very successful. The big unit of bikes is your stand out performer and word of the phoenix on them will make your opponent cry
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 20 2020, 16:27

@Lord Weston wrote:
Those conversions are incredible Soulless I love the idea it's totally inspired. This list looks incredibly similar to one a friend and I ran at a doubles event last weekend. It was very successful. The big unit of bikes is your stand out performer and word of the phoenix on them will make your opponent cry

Oh, thank you very much. Smile

I was inspired by a little piece of fluff about the Kabal of the Wraithkind, the Archon of which "courted daemons".

The piece gave no details but it sounded like a fun concept to theme an army around. I thought Harlequins could work well as they all have 4++ saves, which seemed very appropriate.

The Wraithkind's symbol is a Mandrake, so I'm trying to make the Harlequins and HQs bear some resemblance to such.


Anyway, I've been working on more of the Skyweavers recently, along with some more HQs, so I'll try and post some pictures of those soon.


Also, nice to hear your friend had good results with a similar list. Hopefully that bodes will for mine. Twisted Evil

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts)   Dark Eldar + Harlequins (1500pts) I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 21 2020, 15:34

Really, can't take a solitaire in a Ynnarri force..bleh. What's up with that, there's a solitaire that fights alongside Yvraine in the lame Phoenix Rising story.

Anyway on the list, yeah you don't really want 3 deathjesters so I'd stick with the patrol. The troupe unit still feels like dead weight without a transansport or any weapons, but I don't see where you make the pts to fit them in anyway so I'd stick with what you have. Yvraine should pretty well alongside the shadowseer, decent amount of mortal wounds output. The one downside is the skyweavers are really the only unit their psychic powers can buff.

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