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 Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1148
Join date : 2015-12-06

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 21 2020, 16:12

Wow 9 raiders, that does sound fun. That does sound like a pretty solid combination to me, I'm increasingly convinced that in the current meta every Drukhari list wants to take coven. I also see why in that list you don't need double battalion, without lightning fast/vect we can really make do with 9-10cp.

What trait did you use for the coven? With all those raiders, I could see the case for Dark Technomancers or Artisans of Flesh.

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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4169
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 22 2020, 22:38

I took custom for DT, wounding Marines on 2+ is so good, also each failed save vs Aggressors (and other 3 wound units) is a dead model.


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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

Posts : 921
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 22 2020, 23:33

Today I tried for the first time Lique-Grotesques with DarkTecnomancers+Master Torurers.
My god, they're amazing.

I tought they were overcosted, but jeez today they were amazing against ImperialFists.

BH Aircraft
3 Razorwings (dissies)
BH Battalion
2 Archons (and 2 Ur-Ghuls - ablative wounds for Grots if I roll 1s when I lose their Raiders)
4x5 Kabals (3 shredders)
3 Ravagers
4 Raiders (dissies)
DT+MT Coven Vanguard
Haemi (hex+whip)
4-4 Grots all liquefators
5 Mandrakes

2 Raiders with the Grots-of-Death. Basically they have a "poisoned" liquefator with damage2 (because you're wounding everything on 4+, 5+ for T6 or more), 4 of these flamers from a transport that can do 14"(+D6/+8"). I know that sounds expensive, but because I'm spamming dissies-veichles, it's difficult to the opponent to focussing their Raider (and if they do that, I can always disembark Kabals from the others and carry the Grots again, so he needs to kill all the Raiders). And even if the Grots are on foot, they will do /"+D6" (rerolled)+8" as a Threat range.
Now, the trick: when you roll 1 on wounding stuff, you get your Grots wounded...each of them. As you know, you need to roll separate Liquefators because DT wounds the carrier of the weapon itself, not the unit. So when you have multiple Grots wounded, you can now divide all the incoming wounds between the wounded ones instead of fulfill one until his death.
So between veichles spam, natural toughness and this trick, focus on the Grots it's expensive. But the oppo cannot leave them alive because they hit as a truck with their liquefators.

It's hard to belive, but this is actually a really good build for Marines. I'm  not talking about the list itself, I'm just saying that DT LiqueGrots are kinda expensive, but if you manage to fit them with other major threats they becomes stunning.

So yeah, just for sharing a new exp with DT. I know, on paper doesn't sounds good, but just try to belive. It worked on me. I was thinking about 3 units initially, but they're too much expensive...if you keep then few (2 units are perfect for me) they became a threat that the oppo cannot avoid, and it will conditionate his entire game.




Oh, and Master Tortures, because LiqueGrots only have FleshGauntlets, and rerolling wounds with 1 CP sounds nasty. It's just the best 2nd Obsession I found useful for them in this build. They change their role, you don't need to charge with them if you wont, basically you're going to do way more damage with flamers than with monstrous cleavers.
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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

Posts : 357
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 23 2020, 00:45

Seems like an interesting concept. Though I'd quibble on the details, I don't find BH defensively reliable. I'd rather lean into the offense, especially in the marine meta. I think Test of Skill razorwings are better, and I'd prefer DT on the raiders too. Very threatening to dreads and the heavier primaris.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

Posts : 921
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 23 2020, 02:12

I disagree but just for the Writ of the Living Muse.
Today I keeped 3 Ravagers AND 4 Raiders all within 6" from my warlord: it was a massacre. DT doesn't allow you the same precision, and with so many shots at 2 damages I don't feel any miss on DT Rava. Plus, you want your boats being durable at his best, expecially against Marines. And with 10 wounds, against all those Stalkers, fnp helps a bit (basically because it's change the odd in even, and he waste some D2 shots on it).
I don't make Raiders.from Artists just because they don't fit in the list lol.
We can say that I prefer the accuracy over the damage in this case (don't forget Grots themselves on veichles: 4 of them usually pull out like 5 wounds at D2 with Ap-(1-3)..even against flyers).
About ToS on Razorwing, I don't like it so much. If I field Dissies, usually they go on troops, not veichles. And I prefer being a bit more durable. ToS is nice (for me) on Voidravens.
But it's all a matter of taste. And of meta too I guess, I don't find too many Aggressors here while Intercessors and Centurions are standard (so 2 and 4 wounds, damage3 will fit badly here). DT is definitely good against Aggressors and Inceptors (and veichles too).
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sekac
Sybarite
sekac

Posts : 357
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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 23 2020, 07:34

Fair enough, I stopped taking Ravagers, and thus, stopped taking the Writ. I still find minimal battalions useful for Vect alone, but I have a hard time investing more than that.
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 23 2020, 09:32

Yeah i stopped taking Ravagers too, with the cost increase and the power boost marines and others got, they are just don't feel worth it anymore, especially when we have RWJF for 5pts more.

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Wych
Cerve

Posts : 921
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 23 2020, 17:41

I dropped them days ago but I came back to fit them in list again. They're too much good against Marines. You can deploy them at 49,9" from your opponent when you can, or just deepstrike them being sure to shoot with them all the time. It's okay playing without them but I found them too usefull right now imho
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1148
Join date : 2015-12-06

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PostSubject: Re: Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us?   Do we have the answer to overpowered Marines right in front of us? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2020, 15:08

@amishprn86 wrote:
I took custom for DT, wounding Marines on 2+ is so good, also each failed save vs Aggressors (and other 3 wound units) is a dead model.

Yeah I could see that being pretty brutal, I might have to give that a go one of these days as I've loved dark technomancers the few times I've tried it out.

I use my ravagers less than I use to, but I do tend to miss them when I don't have them.

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