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 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus

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Skulnbonz
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Skulnbonz

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PostSubject: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 27 2020, 19:34

Went to a 2K Tournament to test out my list to see if it needed any tweaks before Adepticon in March. I really wanted to test them against some new marines, and round two I did! Ugh.

Anyway, onto my list:
2 battalions - Both Flayed Skull

2x Arcons with blast pistols (1 with power sword, 1 with husk blade)
1 x Drazahar
1x The Yncarne
8X 5 warriors with blasters
6x Incubi
3 x Ravagers with disintegrators
1x raider with disintegrators.
8 Venoms

Reasons for my list:
It is a gamble. I used to have lances on the raider and ravagers, but with so many freaking marine players out there I felt that the dissies may do me better. As long as I did not fight a knight list, I should be fine.

I had very high hopes for the yncarne and drazahar, and hated that I had to take two arcons. Overpriced and underpowered hot garbage that they are.

So onto game 1:
Genestealer Cult.

He had a broodlord, like 3 of the floating psychic bugs, a malenthrope, 3 big bugs with indirect fire, a couple sniper characters and 3x3 buggies with D3 Lascannon shots each, a bunch of ripper swarms, etc.

Ok, so right off the bat I am facing down a highly mobile, lascannon heavy army that was also decent in HTH with a crap ton of high strength indirect fire.
Pretty much, i am thinking my vehicles will be toast, but I had won the roll to go first, (mission was full deploy and go first unless seized on) so I gambled and put it all on the table, centrally located. Due to the Flayed Skull bonuses, I knew I could get where I had to go if he castled up in a corner somewhere.

He did not bother deploying his big units in cover as he got no cover bonus vs Flayed Skull, deepstruck some rippers and tried to seize.
He did not.

Dark Eldar, turn 1:
I flew over to hold some objectives, and flew the raider right up into the middle of his forces. the venoms all were gathered around to just put out the pain.
And they did.

I shot all three giant bugs off the board, as well as a few other small models.
I ended the turn in control of all but 1 objective, and he no longer had indirect fire, and was all bunched up (except for his buggies) in one area.
He went, and dropped the raider. POOF, the Yncarne appeared (just out of 3" heroic intervention range) and out poured the tow arcons, the incubi, and drazahar.
His buggies all flew around to try to contest objectives, and opened fire.
In a lackluster show of rolling, he managed to drop 1 venom which put warriors (obsec) on the objective the venom was holding.
In desperation, he charged the broodlord at the Yncarne, a floating bug at drazahar, and ripper swarms at the arcons.
the broodlord rolled a "3" which he then rerolled to a "3". ugh. felt for the guy on that one.
the floating bug (I really need to learn their name) bumped into drazahar, which immediately beat the bug to death without having to attack twice. The arcons ate the rippers.

he stood back, looked at the field and asked "What are you going to do to handle the buggies?"
"Blasters and charge with vehicles to prevent shooting" I replied.
"Thought so" he said and conceded the game at the end of turn 1. the Yncarne, Drazahar and Incubi and 2 Archons were all in his back lines, Venoms held all the objectives and he had no real answer to win this game.
I felt bad for him, but he did go on to win the rest of his games pretty handily. It was now about 1 pm, and next game was 3:45. My opponent and a friend and I went to a craft beer restaurant in the same plaza, sat at the bar, drank beer and ate bar food until game 2. Had a great time!

Next, Game 2 Vs travis and his Iron Hands


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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 27 2020, 20:09

Neurothropes and Zoanthropes

Nice game and good luck for your next matching. You'll need it.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 27 2020, 20:21

So before round 2, I asked around about this iron hands list, and I was told pretty much "Go for as many points as you can before you lose"
So the Iron Hands first opponent got crushed, badly and when I asked what I could do to counter this list, he looked at my army and laughed. 100% serious here. I was told by other players the following:
The Leviathin is unkillable.
The intecessors are unkillable
The dreadnaught characters are untargetable AND unkillable
The characters are unkillable
The stratagems are broken
The army is broken
And it is no fun to play against.

Well, that sounded like a big ol steaming pile of suck.
I do not remember his list, as I was really trying to figure out a way to win this game. But from bad memory:
Leviathin
2 chaplain dreads
6-7 x 5 man intecessors
5 double flamer toughness 5 guys
3x 5 super snipers (no los needed)
3-4 characters (apothicary, some dude to buff this, some dude to buff that, just a whole pile of broken crap to be honest)

Well, I won the roll to go first, and knowing he would have to castle up, put my whole army in the middle, but put 2 ravagers in reserve.  One venom I left empty and put the warriors behind cover, out of range of his snipers on an objective. There were only three objectives, one in the middle and one in each deployment zone.
He deployed opposite of me, we shook hands, he failed to seize and we began.

I flew a venom up to hold the middle objective, and everything else spread out (to try and tempt him into uncastling his army) and started shooting.
Venom #1- I shoot a blaster at the leviathin, and the warriors double tap into the closest intecessor squad.
He plays a stratagem to half the damage to the leviathin, and has a relic to -1 the damage as well. In other words, to put two wounds on the leviathin, I need to do 5 damage.
I ask how many points that strat is. I was told "1"
I laugh and say enjoy it now, cause that is going up to 2-3!
So I fail to hit the leviathin anyway.
The venom shots saw 4 wounds go through. He had a 3+ (2+ against other armies due to cover) 5++ invul, and a 5+++ feel no pain. I did one wound.
After ALL of my shooting, I wiped one unit of intecessors and killed 3 from another.

His turn saw the ball of death not move, heal the intecessors that were down to 2, open fire and drop the venom on the objective, kill the warriors who fell out and removed another 2 venoms.

Seeing how this was going, I decided to ignore the dreadnaughts fully. I mean it. Right then and there, unless there was no other target in range, I was not going to shoot at his dreadnaughts.

Venoms flew up, another one took the center objective.  Another venom landed on a wall section right next to his objective, though he still held it due to obsec intecessors. the raider disembarked everything then moved up to face off against the flamer centurions.
Shooting went pretty good, as one sniper squad and 2 intecesors got wiped. The raider charged the cents to take the overwatch, then drazahar and the incubi and the arcons all charged in. the Archons never even got to swing as drazahar pretty much wiped the unit himself, and what he did not kill the rest of the incubi did.

The iron hands were now beginning to see that through attrition, they might not win!

Their turn 2 saw them put fire on the venom by their objective. I made it -1 to hit (-2 total) so even with rerolls they had to expend a lot of firepower on it. It died, and I placed they warriors behind where it was and dropped the yncarne where the venom was.
The leviathin turned, and blasted the Yncarne right off the board.  I was hoping to live, but with the "exploding 6's" strat, as well as rerolls, etc, there was never very much chance. But what it did do is make it so he killed only 2 units that turn.

turn 3 saw the dark eldar press their advantage. A venom flew behind a building, and took out both sniper squads (with a little help from a ravager)
two other venoms flew over and were able to target characters as his "ball of death" was getting thin in places.
That is when I found another neat little trick he pulled. For a command point, he is able to transfer wounds to other models. So I was shooting at his apothicary, who failed his 3+, then his 5+++, transferred it to ANOTHER model, and took ANOTHER 5+++! So he is able to take two feel no pain saves and an armor or invul save.
Ugh.
Either way, it did not really matter as I was just going to keep shooting until everything was dead.  When the shooting stopped, I flew the venoms into what was left to prevent them from shooting.

His turn saw a unit back out of combat with drazahar, and the leviathin wipe drazahar off the board.  
other units backed out from venoms, and the dreadnaughts were able to take 1 out.

My turn saw the intecessors near his objective all die, two HQ models die, and the last intecessor squad down to 1 model. I was getting hold more, kill more, and the bonus objective points. There was no feasible way for him to recoup with what he had left, basically 2 characters and three dreadnaughts.

He fought as best he could, but in the end his leviathin was surrounded by venoms and warriors on foot, and then a venom charged a character, and consolidated into the leviathin.
It was game over at that point, as the leviathin sucks in HTH and would never be able to leave.
Time ran out, and Dark Eldar won 20-13

WOW.
pulled it off, when no one thought I could. That army is nasty as all get out. Best thing I did was ignore the big scary things, play to the objectives and feed it small, sacrificial units (except for the Yncarne, that hurt a bit) until the rest of his army was dead.

If i was not Flayed Skull, it would never have worked, as the rerolls, the ignore cover (especially) and the movement all helped.

My opponent was so bitter at losing to Dark Eldar, he left the tournament. There were no arguments or issues, I just think he was so sure he was going to win the whole tournament, he got upset when he lost.

Next, Game 3- Adeptus Mechanicus

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 27 2020, 21:10

And on to round three.
Another great game against a tough army. He had:
2-3 sniper squads
2-3 rather large on foot squads
a squad of 10 deepstriking things with pistols that shoot 5 times each!
6 Kastellan robots
5 destroyers (breachers?)
Cawl
A named guy that gives 6" range extra
2 skorpious tanks
2 dune crawlers
a few other characters, etc...

So this army was going to be rough. I was going second, and there was a lot of shots coming my way. He took "Big game hunter" so i dropped all three ravagers in reserve.
I did not steal.

His turn 1-
he shot, and dropped 4 out of the 8 venoms. OUCH! I even made one an extra -1 to hit!

My turn 1 saw the raider fly up as far as it could toward some troops he had by the side of a building. That building held his objective as well as both of his engineer squads. If I clear that, it cripples his point making capabilities. Everything else moves up and shoots. I take out two sniper squads, kill a robot, put one wound on a dunecrawler with a blaster shot where I rerolled the "3" damage. ugh.
I charged (and made) an assault with my raider against his on foot squad. Did no damage.

His turn 2- he shot at the raider. And he shot. And shot some more. He finally destroyed it, and I promptly rolled 5 "1's" for the people inside! So drazahar disembarked 3" right next to the wall, as did 2 arcons and a klaivex. I also put the Yncarne where the raider was.
He did not charge, but I heroic intervened the Yncarne against his engineer squad, the two arcons against the other, and drazahar against a skorpious tank.

Yncarne ate the 5 man squad.
Arcons ate the other.
drazahar, in ONE turn, destroyed the skorpius (rolling 3 6's will have that effect!) They consolidated towards the destroyers and cawl. (he did make the tank blow up, handing out mortal wounds all around.)

My turn saw shooting decimate most of his army. Then i charged Drazahar at Cawl, the yncarne at the dunecrawler, arcon at the last skorpius, and the klaivex at a lone straggler from the unit the raider charged.
Klaivex killed his guy leaving him alone on the objective.
Arcon killed the destroyer (4 were killed from shooting)
Other arcon did squat against the skorpious, but it will prevent it from shooting next round.
Yncarne killed the dune crawler
Drazahar killed cawl without breaking a sweat.

My opponent was reeling. He dropped in the 10 man pistol squad and wiped a warrior unit off the board. He was trying to salvage some points, so he split up the robots shooting at the ravagers. The first did 3 wounds. He gave up and conceded at that point. (no more rerolls from cawl hurt him bad)

So, this game started scary as my venoms were dropping like flies, but as soon as the Yncarne and drazahar broke free, it was all over.

So, at the end of the day, Dark Eldar took first place!

If I had to give an award to a model, it would have to be Drazahar. That guy is solid!


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 28 2020, 14:43

I'll read more later as i don't have time right now, but GJ!

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 28 2020, 17:22

I think you can't heroic intervene when the Yncarne pops up during opponent's turn.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 28 2020, 20:52

You cant charge if he does it during your turn, but that is the only restriction that I know of.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 28 2020, 22:39

@Skulnbonz wrote:
You cant charge if he does it during your turn, but that is the only restriction that I know of.

From a torough investigation of 5 minutes on google, it seems it falls in a greyzone.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 29 2020, 00:56

They faqed it, you can not Heroic after teleport moves.

But then they removed the faq.. so IDK where it is or if its still a thing as the other parts of that faq are still being played.



EDIT: It was part of the faq that explain teleporting units, there was a list of dos and don'ts

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 29 2020, 14:22

@amishprn86 wrote:
They faqed it, you can not Heroic after teleport moves.

But then they removed the faq.. so IDK where it is or if its still a thing as the other parts of that faq are still being played.



EDIT: It was part of the faq that explain teleporting units, there was a list of dos and don'ts

I missed that they removed the FAQ.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 30 2020, 20:00

As far as i know, there is NOTHING that prevents the Yncarne from a heroic intervention after redeploy.
if there is any, I really need to know about it because it would change my whole list and how it plays.
Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 30 2020, 23:50

I think page 9 of the BRB FAQ prevents the Yncarne heroically intervening after a teleport:

Quote :
Q: What rules apply to units that are removed from the battlefield after deployment (via abilities, Stratagems or psychic powers), and are then set back up again on the battlefield?
A: If a rule or ability causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to that unit:
...
3. Models in that unit cannot move again during that turn for any reason, other than to make a charge move, to pile in, or to consolidate.

Heroically intervening is movement that isn't charging, piling in, or consolidating, so isn't allowed after a redeployment.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 31 2020, 16:33

@Burnage wrote:
I think page 9 of the BRB FAQ prevents the Yncarne heroically intervening after a teleport:

Quote :
Q: What rules apply to units that are removed from the battlefield after deployment (via abilities, Stratagems or psychic powers), and are then set back up again on the battlefield?
A: If a rule or ability causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to that unit:
...
3. Models in that unit cannot move again during that turn for any reason, other than to make a charge move, to pile in, or to consolidate.

Heroically intervening is movement that isn't charging, piling in, or consolidating, so isn't allowed after a redeployment.

I saw that FAQ. The counter-argument I saw was that it's for unit that leave the field and re-enter it. Yncarne never left the field. It's just a deploy.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 31 2020, 19:51

It was not even questioned at any tournament I played. Adepticon may be a bit more johnny on the spot though. May have to rethink the Yncarne in my list

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 01 2020, 19:34


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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2020, 16:37

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yep, found, you cannot Heroic

Pg 9, https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/30ead283.pdf

It's not that clear. That rule is for unit that left the field and re-enter it the same turn. The Yncarne is not that.

You should ask your tournament organiser beforehand.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2020, 17:19

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Yep, found, you cannot Heroic

Pg 9, https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/30ead283.pdf

It's not that clear. That rule is for unit that left the field and re-enter it the same turn. The Yncarne is not that.

You should ask your tournament organiser beforehand.

No, the FAQ covers both uses of the Yncarne's teleport (as an initial deployment and as a redeployment mid-game). Page 11 says:

Quote :
Q. The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.). Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?

A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.

Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?

A: No.

So, again, heroic intervention isn't charging, piling in, or consolidating - the Yncarne can't do it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2020, 01:39

Yep, its very clear.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2020, 15:55

No, the Yncarne cannot heroic intervention, that's clear. And yes, it is a unit that leaves and rejoin the field.
I belive that's not intended because usually a unit teleport in his turn so it's obvious that they don't check the heroic intervention. But Yncarne in fact can teleport during opponent's turn.......so yes, he's s----ed until new errata.




Anyway I'm happy to see that Skari is not the only DE player that doesn't cry against IH. Good job! As you have seen, it is possible Wink
I'm keep saying that Drukhari actually counter marines pretty well
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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 17 2020, 19:50

How would you change your list, if Yncarne can't heroic intervene?

By the way, I love your battle reports, short and sweet :-)

Regarding Heroic Intervention, I get the impression that you can only do this in the enemy's turn. From Rulebook: "After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a heroic intervention"

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PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2020, 14:53

@Septimus wrote:
Regarding Heroic Intervention, I get the impression that you can only do this in the enemy's turn. From Rulebook: "After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a heroic intervention"

Yes, but if the Yncarne pops in during your own turn (as a result of an assault, most of the time), you can heroic intervine during the next turn.
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

Posts : 4173
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2020, 04:10

@Septimus wrote:
How would you change your list, if Yncarne can't heroic intervene?

By the way, I love your battle reports, short and sweet :-)

Regarding Heroic Intervention, I get the impression that you can only do this in the enemy's turn. From Rulebook: "After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a heroic intervention"

Yncarne is fine now at 280pts, its still a strong anti marine unit. The heroic has always been in your opponents turns, no one argues that, but the question is if you teleport in your opponents turn then can you heroic (Which you used to be able to do and that is why people took him, GW decided that was to strong).

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2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus   2000 Point tournament Versus Iron Hands, Genestealer cult and Cult mechanicus I_icon_minitime

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