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Void Prince
Hellion
Void Prince

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PostSubject: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 09 2019, 16:43

Greetings all.

Played against the above last night and it went badly. Played a 1500 point Coven army, with DT & OC Obsessions. Had Heamo's (one with Helm of Spite), 4 Talos, Reaper, Drazhar + squad of Incubi, the rest was Wracks and Raiders(D/cannons).

Red Magnus just tore me apart. Could not get past his buffed 3+ invun, -1 to hit, healing ability plus buffs to his psychic power casting. Along with the other Psykers throwing out Smite etc etc.

Any suggestions for tactics or tweaks to my list for next time?  

Thanks...
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 09 2019, 18:16

TS have good psykers, but very limited long range shooting, so my suggestion is to add some big guns to your list, possibly in the form of a small black heart or obsidian rose kabal detachment (archon + 3 ravagers + Yvraine for extra deny). Keep the distance at first and then advance the coven when part of his army is gone.

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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 09 2019, 19:21

I always find Thousand Sons kind of a tricky match up for us, we outgun them but they benefit hugely from having an almost entirely unopposed psychic phase.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 09 2019, 20:41

I think pure Coven will really struggle against TS.

- They have tons of sources of Mortal Wounds, which negate most of your defences.

- They have excellent invulnerable saves, so Incubi Klaives and the extra AP from DT will be largely wasted.

- Even with DT, you'll typically be outgunned (even ignoring their psychic shooting).

- In spite of being a melee force, you'll have nothing in your army that can match Magnus the Red in combat.

- Their psychic phase will be basically unopposed.


I think the sort of army you want to be running against TS would be stuff like massed Kabalites in Venoms. Loads of cheap shooting that doesn't care about Magnus' toughness or about fancy invulnerable saves.

You'll still have little psychic defence but given the bonuses TS get it's likely a lost cause anyway.

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Void Prince
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 09 2019, 23:05

Thanks for the suggestions folks.

I was looking at the idea of Venom spam, but with the same Coven traits as originally tried or perhaps use EC instead of OC. I still think the benefits of having DT has its merits. Apparently having a weapon that does 2 damage helps negate  a buff to his infantry saves?

I will have to look at the Kabal option too. As he seemed to be able to ignore my invunerable saves at times using Kabals may be viable?

I like the suggestion of using Yvraine (I have the model) it would just be a case of finding the points.

I may try a combo of both Coven & Kabal...
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 07:44

DT on Venoms. Those are the only Venoms that really affect TS. Because you want both +1 to wound and +1 damage (expecially vs Thousands and Magnus).
Kabal doesn't matter vs TS, it adds nothing (except for Ravagers of course, so bring the classic Spearhead that always works).
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Void Prince
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 12:18

@Cerve wrote:
DT on Venoms. Those are the only Venoms that really affect TS. Because you want both +1 to wound and +1 damage (expecially vs Thousands and Magnus).
Kabal doesn't matter vs TS, it adds nothing (except for Ravagers of course, so bring the classic Spearhead that always works).

I get what you are saying. I had hoped that the BH Spearhead could be left behind for once.

Back to rewriting the list again Smile
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 13:18

Dont fight Magnus, at 1500pts its luck if you kill him. Just kill everything else and stay away from him trying to claim objectives.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 14:17

@amishprn86 wrote:
Dont fight Magnus, at 1500pts its luck if you kill him. Just kill everything else and stay away from him trying to claim objectives.

Staying away from Magnus isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, dude can move 32 inches a turn with Warptime and then charge.
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Void Prince
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 16:14

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Dont fight Magnus, at 1500pts its luck if you kill him. Just kill everything else and stay away from him trying to claim objectives.

Staying away from Magnus isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, dude can move 32 inches a turn with Warptime and then charge.

Yep his movement makes a Solitaire look slow!

I reckon about 100 DT poison shots will just about do it. If I get a chance to ever put it to the test.

I appreciate the feedback folks...
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 10 2019, 22:20

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Dont fight Magnus, at 1500pts its luck if you kill him. Just kill everything else and stay away from him trying to claim objectives.

Staying away from Magnus isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, dude can move 32 inches a turn with Warptime and then charge.

If we have 5 units in all different directions with units inside transports he can only go get 1 unit at a time (besides a small MW here or there, maybe a D3MW too) but for the most part he fights in 2 phases, make him have to kill the same unit in both phases (unit + transport, or Unit + Hero, etc..) Make him only able to deal with 1 thing a turn.

Also remember not all the spells ignore LoS, Fire and fade behind and into buildings, and he cant melee in ruins for the most part, get up on ledges.

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Void Prince
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 11 2019, 10:54

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Dont fight Magnus, at 1500pts its luck if you kill him. Just kill everything else and stay away from him trying to claim objectives.

Staying away from Magnus isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world, dude can move 32 inches a turn with Warptime and then charge.

If we have 5 units in all different directions with units inside transports he can only go get 1 unit at a time (besides a small MW here or there, maybe a D3MW too) but for the most part he fights in 2 phases, make him have to kill the same unit in both phases (unit + transport, or Unit + Hero, etc..) Make him only able to deal with 1 thing a turn.

Also remember not all the spells ignore LoS, Fire and fade behind and into buildings, and he cant melee in ruins for the most part, get up on ledges.

All good advice.

I keep forgetting that if you crowd a ledge/roof with models it can prevent assaults. I have had it done to me so perhaps it is time to return the favour Very Happy
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: v. Thousans Sons   v. Thousans Sons I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 24 2019, 04:33

I agree with others, you should try to mechanized as much as possible. The MWs cut thru covens ++ like nothing, but will have harder times with all the wounds and +++ from raiders and venoms.
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