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 Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?

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merse24
Kabalite Warrior
merse24

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PostSubject: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 02:51

For me I'm going to be keeping an eye on the weapons' costs. I'm hoping to NOT see Dissy Cannons go up and I'm REALLY hoping to see Liquifier Gun and the Heat Lance get some major reductions. I think both the Liq and HL could be huge winners from some of the PA obsessions.

What about you guys? What are you keeping an eye on??
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 08:52

None of the things I would like to see change have any chance of being in Chapter Approved. My biggest problem at the moment is the fact we can't decently put our HQ's with our troops in the same transport without having to sacrifice special weapons.
A rule that our Raiding party with 3 Patrol detachment counts as 1 detachment would be nice, but I try not to keep those hopes up either.
I honestly don't think we're going to get much at all from Chapter Approved. We didn't last year, and I don't think that will change.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 10:27

Reavers, Hellions, tantalus, and beasts/master all get cheaper. CA is only points changes so.. its what it is. I really want my Harlequins to get cheaper more so tho, they are in dire need of points changes.

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Darklord
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 11:29

Like Gelmir I dont thing we're going to get any change from the next CA.
However I would also like a Transport Capacity update (Raider 12 and venom 6).
It will be fair compared to others Aeldari vehicules.

But we must be happy with little news from first PA (obsessions and Incubi).

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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 12:06

I'm pretty confident that we'll be seeing some points changes. The only reason we missed the last round was because our Codex was apparently printed too closely to CA's printing deadline.

A few months ago, I'd have said that nerfs to things like Disintegrators, Talos, maybe Ravagers and Venoms would be fair - but that quite simply isn't true in the current Marine-dominated meta. Unfortunately for us the consensus amongst the rumourmongers is that CA is very much targeted towards the pre-Marine meta, which means they're still viable candidates to be nerfed here.

For buffs, I'd like to see Hellions and Beasts getting points changes the most. Maybe Reavers and the Court as well. If Disintegrators don't get their points increased (probably a faint hope) I'd also kind of like to see our other weapon options brought in line with them - a Blaster or Dark Lance shouldn't be more expensive than one. Splinter Cannons also seem like candidates for a points decrease, especially if Venoms get a base points increase.
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DevilDoll
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 15:41

https://www.reddit.com/r/ThousandSons/comments/dt4o3q/official_chapter_approved_2019_rumor_thread/

no idea where they get the info from but supposedly Talos might get a point increase...
What im hopping for is a tantalus fix if they touch the FW stuff other than that i dont have any hope for something else
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Skulnbonz
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 17:15

@DevilDoll wrote:

no idea where they get the info from but supposedly Talos might get a point increase...
THIS is what gives me some hope:

Quote :
Supposedly a complete review of Forgeworld Point costs

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make my corsairs viable again!

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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 20:33

It might mean they've realised that a tantalus is not, in fact, a knight and should not be priced like one.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 22:29

@Sarcron wrote:
It might mean they've realised that a tantalus is not, in fact, a knight and should not be priced like one.

You're right. It should be more expensive. But I'd like the Tantalus to be able to transport pain engines. It would be nice. 1 pain engine taking 5 places.
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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 15 2019, 23:18

Definitely. Think about it, because of the new obsessions the Tantalus has increased in value, so it should definitely go up to 600 points. Also think about the spikes, those are definitely a form of psychological intimidation to be used on the opponent.

Transporting pain engines would be interesting, but that could also be very spooky. And the rules might be a bit weird. Because if you run talos inside it with dark technomancers, they would take damage, whilst inside a transport. It would work, but feel a bit odd. Other than that, the ability very quickly run some talos up the board could be useful.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 16 2019, 02:24

A points increase for anything in the current meta would be a nice kick in the teeth after the relatively underwhelming new rules we got in PA. The salt in the wound is how much better PA2 looks compared to PA1 (those poor Space Marines were really struggling so I’m glad they’re getting even more buffs in it.)
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 16 2019, 14:03

Me personally? Nothing. Because for all intents and purposes CA only deals with point changes and point changes are currently at the bottom of my list of issues with Dark Eldar.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 16 2019, 14:32

The only thing I see CA changing for us is specifically listing what has moved into Legends.
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amishprn86
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 17 2019, 04:56

Yeah. I'm wondering when Legends are going out. I just want them to get it over with. But for sure no unit in a current codex will be going to current Legends, now in a couple years from now with new edition (or edition reset) and new codex's they might put some codex into it. But we are safe for now.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 17 2019, 11:17

Pretty sure this will just mean Trueborn and Bloodbrides go away, along with wargear options from the Index Archons, etc.
Nothing overly major, as everything else made it into the Codex.

My big question is over whether the Imperial Armour Indexes will survive. The implication seemed to be that all Indexes will go away, but theres no clear word on the Imperial Armour ones that I've seen, and that would be a complete bigger.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 17 2019, 12:04

Well, if FW is getting the new Old Worlds for fantasy, 40k might be cut from FW from anything that isn't also a specialist games and 30k.

There is so much up in the air right now, so many units in limbo it can go either way.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 17 2019, 12:30

@Squidmaster wrote:
Pretty sure this will just mean Trueborn and Bloodbrides go away, along with wargear options from the Index Archons, etc.
Nothing overly major, as everything else made it into the Codex.

I don't know, losing the Blaster on the Archon will be rather depressing, given that it's the only worthwhile weapon he has left.

And losing Trueborn is also quite sad. Especially since the only reason they're not used more is because GW couldn't be arsed updating them.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 12:30

@Squidmaster wrote:
Pretty sure this will just mean Trueborn and Bloodbrides go away, along with wargear options from the Index Archons, etc.
Nothing overly major, as everything else made it into the Codex.
In what world is the Archon losing his blaster "not overly major?"
It is the ONLY thing that makes that mandatory, overpriced and underpowered model palatable.
Seriously. I pay 94ish points for a model that has a blaster that hits on 2's, and you need TWO of the stupid things to make a battalion.

So now, they are going to take away the single, solitary slightly scary thing about this model.
But hey! You can replace it with a 10 point gun with a 6" range! that is almost the same!

Arhons losing blasters is the biggest kick in the jimmies our army has had to endure since they took haywire away from our wyches.

It is VERY major.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 12:46

DE cant have any flavor, DUH!

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 13:02

As an aside, I'm sure you'll all be pleased to hear that the Canoness in the upcoming SoB codex will have a Blessed Blade as one of its melee options (S+2 AP-3 Dd3).

So in addition to being about 2/3 the price of an Archon and having a better aura, the Canoness will also have a vastly better melee weapon.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 13:20

I have SOB (well i just sold them, over 5k points) and i play them competitively.

SOB characters are literally just better than ours in melee. Not only do they get 5 attack, but can have +2str, +3,str, x2 str weapons, hits on 2+ with RR1's aura for all shots/melee, for 45pts base, can also have plasma, melta, pistols like normal and finally can AoF (might change in new book) to fight twice, or give a +1 to hi, and can MAKE THEM AURA abilities.

SoB are very good for being T3 str 3 army. Can have a full army of 4++ save Rhinos that can move +3" turn 1, 3 of them can be Open top (kinda, 6 can shoot out of them), tho thats a FW unit and most likely will go away soon.

I took a MELEE sob army to a tournament, did bad (do to bad luck, literally), got 10th, but all the players was extremely surprised and new i would have won if they didnt get lucky (All 3 of my games were Hammer and Anvil and i went second vs Tau castle, Ork castle, and DE/quins that cheated, the TO talked to him and me about it and he isnt welcome there anymore). Remember thats an army os base Str 3 T3 melee army (Bloody rose gives +1str and +1 attack on any turn that unit charged, was charged, or heroic).

All 3 of my opponents set up 60" away (the max they could) so it literally took 2 turns for me to get them, and as soon as i did i killed 1/2 their armies in 1 turn, all 3 of them lost over 1k points in 1 turn. It was freaking amazing, really wish i had better deployments and went first at least once.


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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 13:41

Archons losing Blasters firmly relegates them to their already pretty standard aura bot role.

Part of me hopes that they'll get a points cut in CA, but hahahah like that'll happen.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 13:48

They really need a points drop. GW values that bad 2++ way to much on a S/T 3 model. I have NEVER had an archon do anything near my Canoness, even when i try to he cant match (tho Str 6 or Str 7 with AP and 3D or D3 for 49pts and 67pts is hard to beat). I've charge units of Primaris and wiped them out with less than 70pt heroes.

The few times the 2++ has worked in melee, i still didnt kill that much.

He really needs to be -10pts at least, i would do -15pts.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 14:53

i have a strong feeling they dont want/care for us to be competitive anymore.
You might like or dislike our codex, the fact is that we have been pretty top tier throughout 8th edition, the way its going right now and with how powercreeping is out of control i think we will just fade away into the lower tiers simply by not being able to follow said powercreep.
i hope im wrong but the second book in phoenix rising leads me to believe that we are screwed ^_^
So i dont expect anything coming out from CA

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Chapter Approved - What are you looking for?   Chapter Approved - What are you looking for? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 18 2019, 15:16

@amishprn86 wrote:
They really need a points drop. GW values that bad 2++ way to much on a S/T 3 model. I have NEVER had an archon do anything near my Canoness, even when i try to he cant match (tho Str 6 or Str 7 with AP and 3D or D3 for 49pts and 67pts is hard to beat). I've charge units of Primaris and wiped them out with less than 70pt heroes.

The few times the 2++ has worked in melee, i still didnt kill that much.

He really needs to be -10pts at least, i would do -15pts.

I agree that GW overvalues the Shadowfield, though honestly I'd rather the bloody thing just die. It's a mechanic I've never liked to begin with, and 8th just has better way of representing it.


However, I don't think the Archon is in need of a point reduction so much as a complete redesign.

What is his role even supposed to be?

A ranged unit? I'm guessing not. Neither the Blaster nor the PGL were considered important enough to even include in the codex, so that leaves him with the eternally-overpriced Blast Pistol. So at best he is supposed to be a ranged unit with a range of 6".

A melee unit? Well he's off to a bad start in that he's leading a subfaction of ranged units. But even if we ignore that, his melee weapons are absolutely abysmal. GW seem to have this perpetual fear of giving DE HQs meaningful melee weapons and so all they Archon can do in melee is lightly polish his opponent's armour.

A buff unit? Well, given that his aura doesn't work inside, into, or out of transports, he's rather limited in the units he can buff. Then you add in the fact that he can't buff Coven, Cult or Mercenary units and you end up with an HQ who can basically buff Ravagers . . . and nothing else.

And even if you consider that a useful role, you're still left with the problem that buffing Ravagers only requires 1 Archon but you need 2 to fill out a Battalion.

Also, one would presume that the Archon would have some synergy with his Court. And indeed the Archon's Court certainly want to be near him in order to get rerolls. The problem is that the Archon's aura is worthless on his own Court. So even if you try to use him with what seems to be his core synergy, he still falls flat.

Put simply, I'd really like GW to actually address the core issues of a unit, rather than just cutting the cost.

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