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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 24 2019, 17:19

Dark Eldar Mono Faction 2000pts
Starting cp18

~~Battalion~~ Coven-Custom; Dark Technimancers, Experimental Creations

Haemonculus: Hexfirle [PL 5]
Haemonculus: Hexfirle [PL 5]
Wracks x5: Hexrifle [PL 3]
Wracks x5: Hexrifle [PL 3]
Wracks x5: Hexrifle [PL 3]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]

~~Battalion~~ Coven-Custome; Dark Technimancers, Experimental Creations

Haemonculus: Hexfirle [PL 5]
Drazhar [PL 6]
Wracks x5: Hexrifle [PL 3]
Wracks x5: Hexrifle [PL 3]
Wracks x5 [PL 3]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]
Venom: 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Spinter rifle [PL 4]

~~Battalion~~ Wych-Custom; Test of Skill, Slashing Impact

Succubus: Archite Glavie, Splinter pistol [PL 4]
Succubus: Archite Glavie, Splinter pistol [PL 4]
Wcyhes x10: x3 Shardnet and Impaler [PL 4]
Wcyhes x10: x3 Shardnet and Impaler [PL 4]
Wyches x5 [PL 2]
Raider: Disintegrator cannon [PL 5]
Raider: Disintegrator cannon [PL 5]
Raider: Disintegrator cannon [PL 5]
Razoring Jetfighter: x2 Disintegrator cannon [PL 8]
Razoring Jetfighter: x2 Disintegrator cannon [PL 8]

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 24 2019, 18:11

I like the dark technomancy hex rifles, I definetly feel like that is something worth trying out. I also think it's either worth taking en mass like you're doing, or not at all. 8 sniper shots a turn is going to hurt, especially against armies with weaker characters. You could drop a shardnet for a hexrifle on the last unit, unless you're saving that unit for engineers in ITC or something similar. I think even when you're just using wyches for the no escape utility like in this list, 2x shardnets per unit is plenty considering they work on everything within 3".

Overall, looks like a fun list to me. The splinter shots from the coven venoms are going to be disgusting, and you've got a fair number of dissies despite no ravagers in the list. I'm eager to hear how it does.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 24 2019, 18:45

Yeah, i'm going to try it this weekend at an event. the Shardnets i'm liking the idea of the potenital loads of 2D as well, And i always take 1 wrack unit with nothing on them, they come in handy like that, posing no threat.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 24 2019, 19:53

Talk to others and thinking about it more.

I should put 2 raiders into the Coven so they can overcharge (+1w, +1D) and just have 1 raider in the Wych detachment and still put the wyches into the raiders.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 24 2019, 23:35

Yeah I don't see any reason not to. Dark Technomancers is consistently going to get you a lot more mileage with 3 damage dissies, and with only 3 shots a raider you won't lose too many wounds to the downside of technomancers. The only trouble is tournament settings I find is if you don't have an easy way to distinguish the raider with the different trait, it might be tough, but if you do not a big deal.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 25 2019, 15:39

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah I don't see any reason not to. Dark Technomancers is consistently going to get you a lot more mileage with 3 damage dissies, and with only 3 shots a raider you won't lose too many wounds to the downside of technomancers. The only trouble is tournament settings I find is if you don't have an easy way to distinguish the raider with the different trait, it might be tough, but if you do not a big deal.

I have easy ways, most of my raiders are custom in some way or another and then i have some normal ones. I'll take 2 custom ones (B.c coven like to Frankenstein up things) and the normal one is the wych units.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 25 2019, 17:40

If i go Dark Tachnomacners + Masters of Mutagens, then the raiders are best in the Wych unit.

But now i need to do a LOT of hard math to see the best combo with my list.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 26 2019, 13:41

I’ve played several games with DT + EC Raiders and they are legit amazing at killing vehicles and heavy infantry now. I would put all your Raiders into Coven if I were building this list. In fact, if you could swap out some Venoms to take more Raiders that would be even better. They’re that good.
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2019, 14:55

So i didn't do to well in the event, but that was mostly b.c i played 2 orks players (it was a friendly local RTT with 12 players) that were kinda new and couldnt play fast, only got 3 turns so i had a low score (Another reason why i hate ITC).

The Venoms did ok, the lack of AP really hurt, but at the same time 2D is really good, the Raiders for sure did better, -3ap 3D +1 to wound is really good.

Drazhar was fine, without the WL trait he still was "ok" the re-roll wounds, with his new +1 to wound, and 2D makes him playable now, but i don't think he is worth the WL spot and taking for seriously competitive.

The Wyches 5+ to MW was very fun and wyches did fine as they always do, the RWJF didnt do much at all, they really need to be FK or BH IMO still.

In the future i'll for sure do MoM, auto wound on a 6+ to hit is so much better, less dice rolling, less chance to take a MW (I took a lot), and speeds the came up. That Wych battalion will be a kabal one for Ravagers BH re-rolls and a better WL.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2019, 15:13

I hear you man on ITC, I had a similar local event recently and I did very poorly because games often didn't get past turn 2, and I had a lot of wyches/talos that couldn't do enough damage by the end of turn 2. It's especially frustrating because in some of those games I felt like I would have won if it got to turn 4, and the game was really slowed down by facing some players with 100+ infantry on the board.

Interesting to hear on the DT venoms. Is your plan to run them now as MoM/experimental creations? I can see how DT is not mandatory on venoms given the high number of shots and low wounds means the mortals on yourself happen often and hurt. Question is though how do you balance that out with the desire for DT on raiders, I'm not surprised that +1 to wound, 3 damage dissies did well.

Glad to hear Drazhar did better, but yeah with alliance of agony it's hard to justify taking a warlord trait on Drazhar, you give up a lot of other traits.

I'm surprised the razorwing didn't go well with test of skill, I would think that bonus would be better than Flayed Skull.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2019, 16:26

The nature of ITC might be why the RWJF didnt do as well if you take vehicles its only 3 or its 5+ b.c how the secondaries work, so no one had more than 3 vehicles, turn 1 i killed 2 of them on all 3 games, so turn 2+ it was kinda wasted.

If i was against another DE player, or a CWE one it might have been worth it, but with 1 SM and 2 Orks players, and the other 2 SM players, none had more than 3.

Im going to try out EC and MoM next and Dark Technomancer+MoM as well, i think DT+MoM is better vs light vehicles+Marines and FnP metas, Overcharge with 2D auto wounds on 6's to hit math works out well. It will depend if i have Raiders also, only DT really helps the raiders.

If i was at an official larger ITC event (tie clocks) I would have won all my games easily. the end of turn 3 i was on mob ups even if i had less points right there, i would have gotten full points in the end other than a random kill more or hold more and bonus. At least 30 points+.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 16:33

I've had that issue with ITC and vehicles. I took haywire scourges to one event, one game I faced 2 knights and they were super useful, other 2 games I faced no vehicles and were not all that useful.

I do think the decision of EC and MoM vs DT and MoM comes down to if you're fielding a bunch of raiders or not. No raiders, I don't think the venoms really need DT, EC is good on them for their average targets, and they don't like the mortal wounds. But as you mentioned there's a few scenarios DT is definetly better, and the raiders really like DT as well.

I've faced some opponents who use a clock, and those games have always worked out better for me, make it to at least the end of turn 3. I've had similar problems with 2 turn games, the score is something like 16/18 in my opponent's favor and I need another turn or two to max secondaries and pull ahead. In the future I'm thinking I will try to get my opponents to use time clocks.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 17:05

Yeah, having only 3 turns is what made me place so low, 19pts vs the top for that round at 30 (if i had 1 more turn i would have had another 7pts) and he had 5 turns, i would have. I think i'm buying a chess clock.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 17:49

Have you considered adding a Tantalus to your coven detachment? I'm actually working on a list with two of those buggers accompanied by grotesques. It worked fine with obsessive collectors but I have to do more testing, especially against space marines.
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 18:13

No, it would get blow off turn 1 no matter what, everyone would just target it.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 19:24

Yeah when people are still prepared to face knights, the tantalus which is substantially weaker is not going to last that long, plus it's overpriced for what it does.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 21:16

If it was 300pts i would, but it really needs to be around the 280pt mark, the repulsor is what 280pts? no reason the Tantalus is so much.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 21:55

@amishprn86 wrote:
No, it would get blow off turn 1 no matter what, everyone would just target it.

I don't have a tantalus (way too expensive for my poor wallet), but if I had one, I would use it. Indeed, it will die turn 1. What you seek is to do enough damage with it to pay it's points back. Also, while his whole army is firing at your tantalus, your ravagers are untouched.
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 21:58

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
No, it would get blow off turn 1 no matter what, everyone would just target it.

I don't have a tantalus (way too expensive for my poor wallet), but if I had one, I would use it. Indeed, it will die turn 1. What you seek is to do enough damage with it to pay it's points back. Also, while his whole army is firing at your tantalus, your ravagers are untouched.

The problem is, 3 Ravagers cost less than 1 Tantalus, and it dies as fast as 2 Ravagers, so if i had 400pts die the same speed as 250pts, thats bad. Actually it dies faster than 2 Ravagers.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 22:01

@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
No, it would get blow off turn 1 no matter what, everyone would just target it.

I don't have a tantalus (way too expensive for my poor wallet), but if I had one, I would use it. Indeed, it will die turn 1. What you seek is to do enough damage with it to pay it's points back. Also, while his whole army is firing at your tantalus, your ravagers are untouched.

The problem is, 3 Ravagers cost less than 1 Tantalus, and it dies as fast as 2 Ravagers, so if i had 400pts die the same speed as 250pts, thats bad. Actually it dies faster than 2 Ravagers.

But you can only have 3 ravagers.
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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28 2019, 22:36

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
No, it would get blow off turn 1 no matter what, everyone would just target it.

I don't have a tantalus (way too expensive for my poor wallet), but if I had one, I would use it. Indeed, it will die turn 1. What you seek is to do enough damage with it to pay it's points back. Also, while his whole army is firing at your tantalus, your ravagers are untouched.

The problem is, 3 Ravagers cost less than 1 Tantalus, and it dies as fast as 2 Ravagers, so if i had 400pts die the same speed as 250pts, thats bad. Actually it dies faster than 2 Ravagers.

But you can only have 3 ravagers.

And i have other things like 8 venoms, 6 Talos, etc.. that are just better. I play y Tantalus in Apoc so i dont need to play it in competitive games, i'd rather take a comp list.

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PostSubject: Re: New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions   New list for upcoming event, only new obsession 3 battalions I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 31 2019, 09:48

For the Tantalus, there are more ways to play it.
You can DS it so it doesn't die at turn 1 and you have a beta strike guaranted (think about Dark Technomancers).
You can play it with Artists of the Flesh and it becomes pretty hard to kill (remember +1T for the Haemi).
Or you can simply fit it with 3 Rava+Razors and us it as a sponge.
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