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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:17

@withershadow wrote:
Vexator mask provides the most durability.

that's why you take 1 custom detachment and 1 PoF
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Elfric
Hellion
Elfric

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:22

The Starmist Raiment is so much better than the Vexator Mask, due to who runs it. I know one is Harlequins and one is Haemonculus, but a Haemo with a Vexator is slow, so he needs to be in a transport people might add, but if hes in a transport he's not buffing coven units. Ultimately i've had Haemo's killed before they even got the charge. At least with Harlequins you are faster and with Twilight pathways you are always guaranteeing you will get to where you need to fast. Yes you don't get the "fight last" ability but you are still stopping overwatch while the rest of your speedy army runs up the board.

I think the Vexator is overrated, not because of what it does (it is powerful) but because it goes on a slow unit that is sprinting up the board to keep up with Talos.
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withershadow
Wych
withershadow

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:25

Meat Mountain’s success rate disputes that assertion. He’s fast enough to keep up with what he needs to.

That said, you can take the Rainment Seer and a bunch of haywire bikes. Then you can take splinter pods.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:27

@Elfric wrote:
Yes you don't get the "fight last" ability but you are still stopping overwatch while the rest of your speedy army runs up the board.

Doesn't this... kind of defeat the point, though? When you're running Covens you surely don't want to stop overwatch while everything else is running up the board, you want to stop it when your units are about to charge. And since the Haemonculus is moving at about the same speed as your Grotesques and Taloi - and will be near them anyway for their aura buffs - they fit perfectly.
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Elfric
Hellion
Elfric

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:38

Harlequins are way faster than Covens. If you can pin down a Leviathan Dreadnought for one turn with a Troupe Master who double moved up the board with a Star Mist Raiment, isn't that invaluable that a unit with horrendous fire power isn't firing? Due to how IH castle up, you could potentially lock down two Leviathan Dreadnoughts and block them in. Dark Technomancers look really interesting but I still think Skyweavers are currently better at killing vehicles than Talos Pain Engines.

Of course I might be using Haemonculus with a Vexator Mask wrong, I just think that against armies like Iron Hands, the Drukhari and Harlequins need to take full advantage of mobility. Mind you Dark Harvest sounds amazing, I'd love to see the army that can stop 30 Grotesques running up the board.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15 2019, 23:57

@Elfric wrote:
Harlequins are way faster than Covens. If you can pin down a Leviathan Dreadnought for one turn with  a Troupe Master who double moved up the board with a Star Mist Raiment, isn't that invaluable that a unit with horrendous fire power isn't firing? Due to how IH castle up, you could potentially lock down two Leviathan Dreadnoughts and block them in. Dark Technomancers look really interesting but I still think Skyweavers are currently better at killing vehicles than Talos Pain Engines.

Of course I might be using Haemonculus with a Vexator Mask wrong, I just think that against armies like Iron Hands, the Drukhari and Harlequins need to take full advantage of mobility. Mind you Dark Harvest  sounds amazing, I'd love to see the army that can stop 30 Grotesques running up the board.

I was pretty sure it can fallback and shoot still.

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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 04:29

@amishprn86 wrote:


I was pretty sure it can fallback and shoot still.


Not as far as I know, unless there is a strat that allows that... or unless the Leviathan is an ultramarine.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 06:46

About overwatch, I tries 3 Autarc Skyrunners with lance, fusion gun and Banshee Mask (Index) in a Supreme Command.

That's all you need. The Archons on bike that we never have. They're better than any Vexator or Starmist, seriously, give.them a run. Small base, fast guys (Saim hann), characters, they can fly in face of ohter characters and blast them...they're amazing!

Just convert some.Archons on bikes and have fun Smile
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 09:11

@Cerve wrote:
About overwatch, I tries 3 Autarc Skyrunners with lance, fusion gun and Banshee Mask (Index) in a Supreme Command.

That's all you need. The Archons on bike that we never have. They're better than any Vexator or Starmist, seriously, give.them a run. Small base, fast guys (Saim hann), characters, they can fly in face of ohter characters and blast them...they're amazing!

Just convert some.Archons on bikes and have fun Smile

I don't think this build is lasting long, though - it's probably getting removed from Matched Play with the Legends update at the start of next year. Although that's probably deserved in this case since it's downright crazy that Autarchs have access to such a strong ability for zero points.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 14:57

Uhm I don't know, GW says that Index will be there forever, but they will never get any adjustment or upgrade.


...which is amazing in this case lol Very Happy
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 15:03

They didnt say forever, and they havent said how long in almost a year. It was last years nova they said "they will stay for a long time".

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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 16:50

No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 17:11

@Cerve wrote:
No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.

Please link, b.c i didn't see that at all, Index's aren't even being sold anymore, they haven't for over 6months (other than the 1 with sos, assassins, and other oddities).

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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 18:11

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.

Please link, b.c i didn't see that at all, Index's aren't even being sold anymore, they haven't for over 6months (other than the 1 with sos, assassins, and other oddities).

It was announced back in August.

Quote :
With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.

Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.

Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.

So all the Index-only units get shoved over to Warhammer Legends, given one final points value and a recommendation that they're not used for competitive play. GW haven't officially said what this means for Index-only wargear options but I think there's a very good chance that they're going to be shoved into this category as well. Goodbye Trueborn, Blaster Archons and Banshee Mask Autarch Skyrunners.
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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 18:21

@Cerve wrote:
No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.

Well, technically, GW doesn't make rulings on tournaments (at least, not the tournaments that matter Razz). They give suggestions. It's up to ITC/ETC/whoever to decide whether or not to implement them. Really, it will be up to whether whoever is running those organizations wants to included Legends. They might even put it up to a poll.
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 20:32

@krayd wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.

Well, technically, GW doesn't make rulings on tournaments (at least, not the tournaments that matter Razz). They give suggestions. It's up to ITC/ETC/whoever to decide whether or not to implement them. Really, it will be up to whether whoever is running those organizations wants to included Legends. They might even put it up to a poll.

It's like the rule of 3. It's not a rule by itself. It's just a suggestion GW made. The tournaments all adopted it.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 20:44

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
No no, it was an article on Wh Community like 1-2 months ago. They want to leave Indexes forever just for players that had those old miniatures, but they will never upgrade those profiles.

But I can figure out that GW will ban those choices in tournaments in future.

Please link, b.c i didn't see that at all, Index's aren't even being sold anymore, they haven't for over 6months (other than the 1 with sos, assassins, and other oddities).

It was announced back in August.

Quote :
With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.

Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.  

Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.

So all the Index-only units get shoved over to Warhammer Legends, given one final points value and a recommendation that they're not used for competitive play. GW haven't officially said what this means for Index-only wargear options but I think there's a very good chance that they're going to be shoved into this category as well. Goodbye Trueborn, Blaster Archons and Banshee Mask Autarch Skyrunners.

I miss understood, i thought he was saying "they will KEEP indexs forever"

Thats why i was saying no.

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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 16 2019, 21:40

@dumpeal wrote:


It's like the rule of 3. It's not a rule by itself. It's just a suggestion GW made. The tournaments all adopted it.

Yeah, but most of the TO/player base pretty much agreed that unit spam was a problem, so they had no issues with adopting it. GW setting a guideline made it easy to implement.

Seeing as how there will be final matched play point costs for all the Legend units, and players might be much more loathe to accept an outright model ban (which is what this amounts to), it really depends on whether ITC or whoever thinks that balance will be improved in a significant fashion by disallowing Legends units. GW has also mentioned the idea of competitive events that specifically include Legend units, sort of like the different formats of M:tG tournament. So who knows what ITC will do.
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False Son
Sybarite
False Son

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 04:50

@withershadow wrote:

9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, 3 grav talons. That's like 216 points IIRC? Gonna have to run some math on that vs. 4 haywire Harlequins.

The thing about Slashing Impact and Test of Skills is that when combined with Power From Pain and Combat Drugs, your Reavers can do so many things. I'm still tempted to give them T5, but now with Slashing Impact I want them to be Overwatch eaters.
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 07:21

So I tried Artists of the Flesh, Slashing Impact and Test of Skill. My list was:
Haem
Drazhar warlord
3x5 Wracks
9 Grotesques
3 Raiders
Succubus
Yncarne
10-10-5 Wycches (blast pistols, 3 gauntlets, 1 shardnet into the last)
9 Reavers 3 blaster+3 talons
2 Razorwings

I tried gauntlets vs veichles but even with ToS they just put some wounds, it's not something reliable. While Blasters otherwise where amazing. Wounding on 2+ any T7 veichle is great.
Slashing impact is phenomenal on Wyches! The thing is that you can field a lot of them, and these are all rolls for wounds. Reavers are ok but I think it is better with wyches. I was lucky but 10 wyches charged into the Sanguinor (my oppo built it into a 32mm base), you can fit all 10 into 1" from it, you don't need to touch the base...10 rolls, a bit of luck, 5 mortal wounds>>>Sanguinor is death before any strike.
The potential of this is stunning. I'm not sure I'll keep ToS, unfortunately Slashing Impact doesn't work on veichles (shame!) so I think I'll go.for maximize my wyches into combat with double hits on 6 (which is basically a straight +1 to hit kinda).

Artists of the Flesh are nearly broken. Level IH here. Prophets it's only better if you want that Vexator mask AND on Wracks. Otherwise, Artists is always better. It is silghtly better having -1Damage vs 4++, it is better against NullZone, Hex and most of all the mission with the single objective with no Inv at the middle. It is AMAZING paired with wyches/kabals bevause you can run now a super durable gunboats. -1D on transports is silly.
Of course is broken on Tantalus, but ok that's FW, I'll try it one day.
And it counters this new ImperialFists that are coming out. So...yes, play Artists guys, they're great Smile
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 08:23

Does the -1D work on vehicles?

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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 09:55

@amishprn86 wrote:
Does the -1D work on vehicles?

Yeah. I'm really strongly suspicious that the rules team didn't remember that vehicles can get the <Covens> tag, too many of these traits seem intended just for Wracks, Grots and Taloi without consideration for how they impact transports or the Forgeworld vehicles.
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krayd
Wych
krayd

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 14:17

Then again, if haemonculi can buff vehicle toughness, then I don't see this as out of line either - otherwise, no one would ever bother with coven transports (mine are generally Black Heart).

How did Artists of Flesh specifically help in this game? Sure, it sounds useful, but it doesn't seem like it would be of any use whatsoever against hordes with tons of D1 attacks, or massed D1 bolter fire.
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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 14:45

@Burnage wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Does the -1D work on vehicles?

Yeah. I'm really strongly suspicious that the rules team didn't remember that vehicles can get the <Covens> tag, too many of these traits seem intended just for Wracks, Grots and Taloi without consideration for how they impact transports or the Forgeworld vehicles.

Hmm yeah... vehicle coven army might be a full thing now, 2 detachments, some heavy hitters for -1 damage on vehicles and then anti marine/horde with venoms.

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Cerve
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Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 15:44

@Krayd: if they shoot you with D1, they're using a lot of fire for taking down some Raiders. Which is the work of the Raiders, so it's fine
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