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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 13:21

@Gherma wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
@Gherma: I guess they can Auspex just once, so you're losing only 20 Kabal.
Other 60 still a quite nice beta strike

If you consider 8 dead primaris a nice beta strike yes, but you are investing 360/400 points an 3 command points for this... and they will all die the next turn.


I think if you're really playing on this strategy, you're going to maximize the weapons on those blobs. So 4 Blasters/Shredders+2DarkLances/SplinterCannons. You're already spending 6 CP for that, just go for an all-in
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Cerve
Wych
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 13:24

@Elfric wrote:
If you wanted to go for pure melee, slashing impact whyches with dark harvest grotesques with drazher and incubi sounds pretty terrifying now? With Slashing impact Reaver bikes, you can fly over infantry with a 10 bike unit, activate eviscerating flyby stratagem, then charge same squad for extra mortal wounds


Unfortunately it doesn't work. You need to advance for eviscerating flyby. So no charge after that
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Elfric
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 13:55

@Cerve ahh I see I am too used to playing Red Grief Cults. But I suppose if you charged in a 10 man Slashing impact Reaver Jetbike squad with 3 Grav Talons, are you going to be able to roll 10 D6 looking for 5's (supposing all bikes make b2b contact) and then 3D6 looking for 4's because of the Grav Talons? The Grav Talons will stack on top of that trait


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 13:55

He said a Succubus.... that 1 model

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Soulless Samurai
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 14:25

@amishprn86 wrote:
He said a Succubus.... that 1 model

I think he was just talking about what to do with the Succubus when using custom traits, since you're locked out of a lot of artefacts and warlord traits for them.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 14:51

I mean you can still take triptych whip, and the generic wych traits are not bad. That being said, if I run a custom wych cult I will really missed the blood glaive/hyperswift reflexes succubus which is just so much stronger than any succubus you could build without red grief. I suppose it's no different that if you were running cursed blade though. If I do end up running precision blows along with something else, at least my 7/8 attack succubus will benefit more from 6s having an extra effect.

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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 16:32

Due to the shorthand wording, is Deadly Deceivers only one MW per unit compared to Slashing Impact which is a MW per model? That's a bit disappointing because it would make footblob Kabalites fairly intimidating despite being lackluster in melee.

I also imagine Experimental Creations to be FAQ'd to only work with melee, which is a shame. Can't let DE have too much fun.

I don't think any of these combos are particularly exciting, I'm already keyed in with my method of playing. Flayed Skull gives delicious rerolls which is nice with splinter racks, Red Grief already makes excellent turn 1 rushdown units with Reavers, and Coven of Twelve works well with chainflail Talos spam. The custom combos look like they're amazing for Wrackmobs but that's still a hard sell compared to PoF.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 16:43

I think it is only a single mortal wound, so yeah not exciting.

I'm not so sure about that. Dark technomancers clearly shows the writers want to buff coven shooting. They probably just weren't thinking about venoms being the primary beneficiary of that. Even if they do change experimental creations, talos/grots like the extra strength, and wracks get a lot more effective in melee.

Kabal traits, I agree flayed skull/black heart is way better. Making your own kabal will be purely a narrative choice, not competitive. Cult is a mix, I do think there are some decent combinations, but there is stiff competition for red grief/cursed blade. I don't agree on coven though, if you want damage from covens there are some really good builds here.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 17:29

I’m very intrigued by a PoF Vanguard (Grotesque spam) with a DT Battalion (Raider/Venom/Wrack spam) or Spearhead (HW Talos spam). Makes pure Coven lists very well rounded and presents legit melee and shooting threats to force bad choices on the opponent.

Edit: DT HW Talos are actually pretty decent against even heavy infantry now with the -1, +1 to wound , and 2dmg.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 18:16

@Elfric wrote:
If you wanted to go for pure melee, slashing impact whyches with dark harvest grotesques with drazher and incubi sounds pretty terrifying now? With Slashing impact Reaver bikes, you can fly over infantry with a 10 bike unit, activate eviscerating flyby stratagem, then charge same squad for extra mortal wounds
Well, no you can't, because you can't charge after advancing unless you're Red Grief.

@Elfric wrote:
@Cerve ahh I see I am too used to playing Red Grief Cults. But I suppose if you charged in a 10 man Slashing impact Reaver Jetbike squad with 3 Grav Talons, are you going to be able to roll 10 D6 looking for 5's (supposing all bikes make b2b contact) and then 3D6 looking for 4's because of the Grav Talons? The Grav Talons will stack on top of that trait

That's exactly the idea. Slashing Impact and Test of Skill may make eviscerating flyby unnecessary.

9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, 3 grav talons. That's like 216 points IIRC? Gonna have to run some math on that vs. 4 haywire Harlequins.




Last edited by withershadow on Sun Oct 13 2019, 19:21; edited 2 times in total
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13 2019, 18:24

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I mean you can still take triptych whip, and the generic wych traits are not bad. That being said, if I run a custom wych cult I will really missed the blood glaive/hyperswift reflexes succubus which is just so much stronger than any succubus you could build without red grief. I suppose it's no different that if you were running cursed blade though. If I do end up running precision blows along with something else, at least my 7/8 attack succubus will benefit more from 6s having an extra effect.
I don't know about all that. The Triptych Blooddancer is also a fabulous choice, and I've actually been running my Red Grief Hyperswift Succubus with a shardnet just to be annoying as hell to everyone. So I guess this would be the same minus the warlord trait.

Cursed Blade + WS drug is basically a cheapo blood glaive (that only does 1 damage boo).
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 03:50

I mean yeah I don't really expect the custom trait succubus to be better. I just made the point that there's a half decent build. Also that 1 damage can't hold a handle to blood glaive.
I'm very intrigued by that reaver build. Heat lances in that case at least wound on 4s, it's still not many shots but combinded with the mortal wounds and melee ability, maybe it's worth it.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 04:54

Toxin Crafters + Soul Bound is a decent selection for a flyer detachment.

Black Heart gives you 6++ and the stratagem. This gives you 6++ repelling 1s, and the toxin missiles and splinter rifles do 2 damage on 6s. I think that’s better.

It may even be comparable to Flayed Skull, since the 3” is mostly wasted on fliers, so you’re really trading rerolling your rifles and ignoring cover for double poison damage and a 20% FNP save. And Masters of Shadowed Sky, of course, which I think is super neglected/underestimated.

I’m bummed we didn’t get an extra stratagem or two. A charge after advancing one is sorely missed.

---

I kind of want to try this melee army.
Spoiler:
 

Kind of dumb, but a lot of wounds (for Drukhari anyway) throwing out a lot of attacks.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 07:27

So... Razorwings can be taken in Wych cults, and given Obsessions.  So the +1 to wound vs. 10+ wound monster/vehicles actually helps flyer armies a lot.

Same with Crimson Hunters gaining ignore heavy bounce

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 12:26

Do you guys think Dark Technomancers (possibly combined with Obsessive Collectors) could make Cronos Viable?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 12:51

I personally dont think so.

Dark Technomancers - enhance shooting attacks, +1 to wound and +1 to damage. Wound rolls of 1 cause 1 mortal wound to firing unit.

Experimental Creations - add 1 to strength, poison adds +1 to wound rolls against lower toughness.


Cronos Guns are both Str 3 and are not Poison, so the +1 to wound still is normally wounding on 4+ (Unless vs infantry of T3), sure its 2D and maybe D3+1 but with 1D6 then to hit, then 50/50 to wound, it doesnt seeem worth it for the shooting part, even if you take the flamer, thats still just 1D6 auto hits, if you get 4 shots that still only 2 wounds..

Its melee isnt really all the much better, with 3 attacks hitting on 4+ until turn 3 its kinda bad, 3 attacks isnt going to do much with the +1 str (making it Str 6).

Honestly, its needs a better role, it is mixed between elite light infantry killing (-2ap for random chance of D3 damage) and support hero. It just needs to be a better support hero for its points/role.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 13:22

No, anything buffing a Cronos buffs a Talos more. Just spend the extra points on another Talos.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 14:07

A hypothetical question: if the Covens traits are FAQed to not affect vehicles, would any of them still be worth taking?
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Drager
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 14:45

Dark Technomancers with... something would still be good for Liquifier Wracks and Talos guns.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 15:19

@Burnage wrote:
A hypothetical question: if the Covens traits are FAQed to not affect vehicles, would any of them still be worth taking?

Barring further nerfs, Dark Technomancy and Meticulous Collectors still seem good.

The former would be something of a double-edged sword anyway - especially on Venoms. And the latter could still heal up Haemonculi, Wracks, Grotesques and Talos.

What's more, it's possible that Dark Technomancy could be used to actually distribute wounds on Grotesque/Talos unit.

For example, let's say you have a unit of 3 Talos and 2 of them injure themselves when shooting. Well, the rules require that you allocate wounds to wounded models first, but the squad now has 2 wounded models. So you could allocate wounds to the first wounded Talos until it only has 1-2 left, and then start allocating subsequent wounds to the other injured Talos. If the 3rd Talos injures itself you can then allocate wounds to that before killing off either of the other two.

And if you're using Meticulous Collectors and the unit reaches combat with an infantry unit, you could quickly heal up the entire squad.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 15:49

Very interesting about the possible wound allocation shenanigans. Is there anything in the rules that says you can’t allocate wounds as the controlling player sees fit if there are multiple wounded models in the same unit?
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Drager
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 16:03

If there are multiple wounded models in the same unit the game breaks currently. So... It's problematic.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 16:16

That will be cover with a FaQ as soon as possible. It is not an 8th mechanics, it's obviously a bug
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AlCorps
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 17:47

I'll have to check the exact wound allocation wording, but I think that multi wounded models is actually ok in the current mechanics.
When they get shot at or attacked, wounds have to be allocated to a wounded model. It doesn't matter if there are several, just pick one of them.

This certainly seems unintended, but the rules mechanics might be ok, and it's very powerful combined with Meticulous Collectors or Fleshcrafters strat.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 14 2019, 17:54

The thing is, in 8th there's not a single way to get more than 1 model wounded at the time, in the same unit.
Except this one. Which is of course not as intended. But we'll see.

Technically it works.
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