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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 21:52

@Cerve wrote:
@Krayd: if they shoot you with D1, they're using a lot of fire for taking down some Raiders. Which is the work of the Raiders, so it's fine


Yeah this, Honestly, at least for all the tournaments i go to, no one just shoots 1D weapons at vehicles.

I would be glad if they shoot 1D weapons at me lol.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 17 2019, 22:14

With the technomancer, it means our phantasm grenade launchers wound on 5+ and are D2. Not bad for a 3-ish pts weapon.
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 18 2019, 16:14

Ok, questions time. If I was committed to using Hellions, because say... I bought too many in 6th ed, what combination of traits should I take?
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 18 2019, 16:29

@False Son wrote:
Ok, questions time.  If I was committed to using Hellions, because say... I bought too many in 6th ed, what combination of traits should I take?

I mean, it will probably depend on precisely what you want to use them for and what the rest of your army looks like. However, I'd probably take two of the following 3 traits:

Slashing Impact: I think averaging 1 Mortal Wound per 3 models before you've even attacked is pretty decent. Not as good as it is on Wyches (simply because they're half the price) but could help give them an edge. Only drawback is that it doesn't work on vehicles (though monsters are fair game).

Test of Skill: If you want to make the most of their damage 2 weapons, you could send them after vehicles, in which case this might come in handy. I believe it also works on their guns, so their Splinter Pods would be wounding monsters on 3s and vehicles on 5s. Seems like a good pick if you want them to hunt vehicles - especially since it's the only trait that also buffs their Splinter Pods.

Precise Killers: Hellions have S4 and D2 on their weapons but no AP, so you could give them this to at least give some of their attacks a little more bite. I think Slashing Impact will usually be better but this does work on vehicles and (of course) there's nothing stopping you from taking both.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 21:50

Finally got a chance to test out the Dark Technomancer + Experimental Creations combo on Raiders (dissies) and Venoms (double cannon). Five Raiders killed a Repulsor on turn one without breaking a sweat. I lost one to return fire and the remaining four killed two Contemptor Dreads and a max unit of Aggressors throughout the game along with whatever else I needed to die. Raiders were definitely the all stars. The Venoms did okay but they all did at LEAST one MW to themselves every turn and still really struggled against 2+ saves. So the DT + EC Raiders are amazing if you bring enough and the Venoms are good but Flayed Skull might still be better. Hex Rifles and Ossefactors were also great for chipping away at units and just generally being a nuisance to my opponent.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 22:14

I was thinking of this

Battalion
Haemonculus Rifle
Haemonculus Rifle
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Venom
Venom
Venom
Raider
Raider

Battalion
Visarch
Haemonculus Rifle
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Wracks x5; Rifle, Ossefeactor
Venom
Venom
Venom
Raider
Raider

Airwing BH OR SWAP OUT FOR HARLEQUINS SKYWEAVERS
RWJF
RWJF
RWJF
Voidbomber

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 22:25

Bear in mind you can't use the Ynnari HQs in a <Covens> detachment (or with Drazhar, or Mandrakes...). It's a shame because it's yet another thing that makes our list building awkward as hell.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 23:16

@Burnage wrote:
Bear in mind you can't use the Ynnari HQs in a <Covens> detachment (or with Drazhar, or Mandrakes...). It's a shame because it's yet another thing that makes our list building awkward as hell.

Yeah i forgot about that, it'll be Drazhar as the HQ then, basically the same thing, just more costly. I'll need to take out something (i think its 7-13 points over with drazhar).

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 23:21

I used Drazhar for my fourth HQ. He did really well as a mop up/countercharge unit to clear up whatever the Raiders and Venoms didn’t kill.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 23:33

I just hate this Rule of 3 for us, we are shafted so much b.c we are 3 armies in 1. At least he is slightly better now too.

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 23:38

Yeah the rule of three really hurts us due the way we are essentially three armies. Drahzar is now great at killing Primaris Marines which actually makes him super useful in the emerging/current meta where Marines are back on top.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 20 2019, 23:57

I'm curious to see how our lists are going to shake out over the next few weeks. I've got a slightly pessimistic feeling that despite the changes things are going to revert back to the classic Black Heart/Flayed Skull/Prophets of Flesh standards, but I'd love to be wrong.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 21 2019, 00:13

I think DT + EC combo (or Test of Skill airwing....for now) will make a very strong addition to BH/FS/PoF but I don’t think it will necessarily supplant any of them. I think a double DT + EC battalion with as many Raiders, Hex Rifles, and Ossies as you can fit in will be a very nasty complement to a BH Spearhead or PoF vanguard with lots of Grotesques.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 21 2019, 01:02

@Burnage wrote:
I'm curious to see how our lists are going to shake out over the next few weeks. I've got a slightly pessimistic feeling that despite the changes things are going to revert back to the classic Black Heart/Flayed Skull/Prophets of Flesh standards, but I'd love to be wrong.

Well a lot of "netlists" are based off ITC standings, so those might be about the same or add in at least 1 new Coven thing. But IMO for non-ITC it is a game changer, and it still may be a game changer for ITC as well due to some of the new CWE stuff, there is some math showing alaitoc might not be the best pick now (b.c of match ups basically).

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 21 2019, 01:43

The really interesting test will be combining the new Covens stuff with the new CWE traits and Exarch powers. I think there are some possible combos now with Shining Spears that are particularly tasty.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 03:42

This would be my take on a competitive list:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [35 PL, 671pts] ++

Detachment Attribute
. Kabal of the Black Heart

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 76pts]: Huskblade, Labyrinthine Cunning, Splinter pistol, Warlord (Archon)
. Writ of the Living Muse
Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter pistol

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon
Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon
Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [49 PL, 834pts] ++

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 81pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Hexrifle
Haemonculus [5 PL, 81pts]: Electrocorrosive whip, Hexrifle

+ Troops +

Wracks [3 PL, 51pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 4x Wracks
Wracks [3 PL, 51pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 4x Wracks
Wracks [3 PL, 51pts]
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip
. 4x Wracks

+ Heavy Support +

Talos [18 PL, 294pts]
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel
. . Two Haywire Blasters: 2x Haywire blaster

+ Dedicated Transport +

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon
Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon
Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [27 PL, 495pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Voidraven [9 PL, 165pts]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles
Voidraven [9 PL, 165pts]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles
Voidraven [9 PL, 165pts]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles

++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The air wing would be using Test of Skill because Dark Scythes will wound anything with 10 wounds and T7 or less on 2s. 3 bombs can really help with crowd control too.

The Coven will run Dark Technomancers and Experimental Creations. The self-wounding for a turn or 2 is worth it for the alpha-strike potential. I'd put the wracks on the ground as objective holders and put the kabalites in the venoms.
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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 18:16

I admit I'm not sold on the voidraven bombers at all. Since their S8 attacks typically already wound on 3+, a +1 to wound represents only a 25% increase in firepower. Compared to the massive improvement that Venoms and Talos get from the new coven traits, the bombers seem positively lackluster.

While I don't hate the electrocorrosive whips on the wracks, I don't particularly love them either. I use my wracks as objective squatters or screens to protect from enemy deep strikes. The whips don't serve particularly well in either role.

May I suggest something like this?

Spoiler:
 
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 18:39

@corollax wrote:
I admit I'm not sold on the voidraven bombers at all. Since their S8 attacks typically already wound on 3+, a +1 to wound represents only a 25% increase in firepower. Compared to the massive improvement that Venoms and Talos get from the new coven traits, the bombers seem positively lackluster.

While I don't hate the electrocorrosive whips on the wracks, I don't particularly love them either. I use my wracks as objective squatters or screens to protect from enemy deep strikes. The whips don't serve particularly well in either role.

May I suggest something like this?

Spoiler:
 

You miss understood the Voidraven, you can now wound on 2+, yes its a small chance but the scythes also wound on 2+ vs T7. And it has -3ap always, venoms have 0 ap, and finally it works with the missiles.

Personally IDK if Ravagers are even worth it anymore, with Flyers having -1 to hit and Missiles, then with Raiders, i dont think Ravagers will be all that good compare.

The more i think about it, the more i just want Raiders.

EDIT: added something

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 18:46

She's saying that going from a 3+ to a 2+ on a Voidraven isn't actually that impressive, since that amounts to about a 25% improvement in firepower - compare the uptoward of 400% improvement that a Coven Venom got.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 18:48

@mynamelegend wrote:
She's saying that going from a 3+ to a 2+ on a Voidraven isn't actually that impressive, since that amounts to about a 25% improvement in firepower - compare the uptoward of 400% improvement that a Coven Venom got.

It doesnt matter if its 400% if you still dont do a lot of wounds. The Voidraven is shooting tanks, a venom even with the better damage still isnt going to do much to tanks, low wounds, no re-rolls, no AP.

They are different rolls.

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 19:06

Let's say you're shooting at the perennial favorite, an Imperial Knight.
The Voidraven gets 2d3 shots that wound on 3s versus a 5++ or 4++ and do d3 damage a pop. All in all averaging a little under 2.5 wounds, assuming they stick to the 5++.
For that price you can get two venoms, with 24 shots worth of 5+ to wound versus a 3+ and 2 damage. All in all you'd be looking at around 3.5 wounds.

Point for point, the venom actually does more damage to an IK than the Voidraven does.

Against something without an invuln, like a Leman Russ, you're looking at the voidraven scoring a little more by virtue of its missiles. And remember, this is the worst case scenario of firing a venom at a freaking vehicle with a 3+. Considering how MASSIVELY much better two venoms are against things like hordes, I sincerely don't see why you'd prefer a voidraven.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 19:27

I wont use it for Knights, Str8 vs T8 isnt that good, but against other Fliers, new impuslors. Point for point 2 venoms with 2 SC are the same damage, but now you have more wounds, better movement, a 1 time MW bomb, and better damage vs things without Invuls. Its not just the damage, its also the utility.

When dealing with no Invul (like Leman Russ) the lances are better, without the missiles it does more damage than 2 venoms with 2 SC's the missiles now are extra.

Scythes on the voidraven honestly aren't all the good without re-rolls.

PS thats only if your Venoms are with 2 SC's and within Rapid fire range, once they are out of that range there is no competition, tho its easy to get in range, just not always. Something extra to think about.

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 19:38

You can't take flyers with covens. You can't buff a voidbomber with technomancer, sadly.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 19:39

@dumpeal wrote:
You can't take flyers with covens. You can't buff a voidbomber with technomancer, sadly.

Its the Wych airwing +1 to wounds vs 10+ wound tanks/MC "Test of Skill"

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PostSubject: Re: Custom Obsessions Combinations   Custom Obsessions Combinations - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2019, 19:46

@amishprn86 wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
You can't take flyers with covens. You can't buff a voidbomber with technomancer, sadly.

Its the Wych airwing +1 to wounds vs 10+ wound tanks/MC "Test of Skill"

Oh, that one. I admit I totally disregarded it when I read the new obsessions.
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