HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

Share
 

 Escalation tourney

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Gary
Slave
Gary

Posts : 12
Join date : 2018-05-31

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2019, 16:43

(not sure if should post here or army list discussion as I actually haven't started the list)
OK need some help. I have a tourney on sat 9/21, just found out the format is escalation, rules are ITC FORMAT. First list 500pts patrol detachment. Second list 1000pts no changes or upgrades to first list, but may upgrade to battalion. 3rd list 1500pts no changes or upgrades to units again. Should I start with 1500 list and work backward? Also with the patrol upgrade to battalion I won't be able to switch from Kabal to Witch or Coven, so whole list is probably Kabal although I could run Witch as I have the models. Also have no idea how to maximize 500pts for primary and secondary ITC objectives!!! Give me Ideas!!
Back to top Go down
Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1130
Join date : 2015-12-06

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2019, 21:57

One detachment max, boy that's such a pain for dark eldar. I hate seeing those sort of formats because the creator clearly didn't consider we're the one army that kinda needs to be able to take multiple detachments. You can of course take kabal, wych cult and coven units in one detachment, but losing obsessions suck.

Anyway for a format like this, I'd suggest sticking with kabals. I wouldn't start at 1500 and build backwards, but I would be building your list in blocks, with some clear thoughts about how to make the list larger. For starters you'll need an archon and a unit of kabalite warriors, so that's an easy start. If you stick pure kabal, the building blocks are going to be progressively more units of warriors. I'd stay with 2 units of 5 in venoms/raiders depending on the models you have at 500pts, and adding more 5 mans the higher you go. At 1000pts, I'd then consider adding a ravager or razorwing again depending on what models you own, both are rather good, and you could easily take 1 of either at 1k or 2 of 1 of those choices. Then to finish out at 1500, you definetly want at least 2 ravagers/razorwings, with the possibility of a third from those 2 offerings for solid firepower. You'll want at least 3x5 kabalite warrior units to fill out the battalion, and I'd say a 4th unit isn't bad either. After that you have a little flexibility, you could either just take more warriors in transports because they are great, or go for something different, like scourge/mandrakes as some deep striking support.

As far as the ITC format goes, dark eldar do it pretty well because it's not hard to deny your opponent secondary objectives. If you take raiders, they can pretty much always take big game hunter against you but that's fine, they won't have too many other options. As for what secondaries you want to focus on, recon is a go to for dark eldar all the time since we are so mobile. I'd then think about what you can reliably kill in your opponent's army, so think about taking one of the kill target x objectives, and the last one is a bit up to you depending on the matchup.

_________________
The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors...
Back to top Go down
Gary
Slave
Gary

Posts : 12
Join date : 2018-05-31

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 16 2019, 23:23

Well I have the models for all of that so I can pretty much run what ever I want. I think I will start with 1.5k list the work that down to 1K then work that down to 500. I may lose a few points each time I downgrade but better than not having what i need for final list. Other than that I think getting max secondaries will be goal for me. Recon for sure, behind enemy lines and either oldschool or engineers. I should be able to expand on that 2nd and third games but 1st game 500pts will be hard to get all 12 pts.
With that in mind here are my starting lists:

Black heart 1488 points 12 left to upgrade archons or something
2 archon, 5 kab w/shredder, 2 Scourge (haywire or shredder same cost), 3 ravager, 2 razorwing, 5 venoms

Black heart 990
2 archon, 4 kab, 2 scourge, 2 ravager, 4 venom

Black heart 495
1 archon, 2kab, 1scourge, 1 ravager, 2 venom

Back to top Go down
Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1130
Join date : 2015-12-06

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 00:31

I was thinking since it was an escalation league you might have a small Drukhari force and were seeking to expand it. Seems it's quite the opposite, you've got a fully decked out armory heavy firepower.

So seeing as you have access to all the ravagers/razorwings you'd ever want, yeah your lists look solid, no reason not to load up on taking several ravagers and razorwings. Only thing I would change is I wouldn't run black heart. I have a soft spot for flayed skull, for the trait alone I think it's really worthwhile. For black heart on the other hand you get a less useful trait, a really good strat but one you can only use once and is incredibly expensive cp wise. Yeah the relic/warlord trait is good, but I'd rather have an obsession that's a real army wide buff.

_________________
The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors...
Back to top Go down
Gary
Slave
Gary

Posts : 12
Join date : 2018-05-31

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 01:54

1st Thanks so much for discussion it has helped with my list build so far. I do have some clarifications for T.O. (waiting on reply). Just to make it clear though it is a one day Tourney. My 2k list does use Battalion of Flayed Skull, Soaring Spite Outrider, and Spearhead Black Heart so I feel ya there. For this tourney I am not sure though.

Black Heart
The Vect will cost to much for any game. I think first game I will have 4 CP, 2nd and 3rd I get 8 CP maybe 1-3 more if I can roll 6's from Black Heart warlord but most games I get no CP back so I don't expect or count on it. The Black Heart 6+ FNP usually makes my vehicles 1 or 2 wounds stronger and in low points games that may come in handy. 7-8 wounds on Venoms may work well. Also all my infantry (oh I hope they don't get in melee) gain +1 fight phase so hit on 2 up starting turn 2 with re-roll charge and advance turn 1. And several units will get the re-roll 1's to hit from Archons and ravagers usually stay close enough to WL to re-roll 1's hit and wound.

Flayed Skull (Make a case I am not adverse I just ain't sure)
Re-roll all 1's RF and anything without RF I keep near Archon still re-roll 1's (huge army wide)
No Cover from my vehicles or guys shooting from vehicles(depends on terrain and changes each game)
3" move to flyers, again depends on game (say end to end deployment) a lot of times I don't want to be that close and if I ABSOLUTELY must get to objective advancing or using fire and fade usually get me there.

Also, I am on the fence with FS Venoms vs FS Raiders. Lets say we are in RF 12" range below
5x FS Venoms 19" move, RF re-roll 1's, -1 to hit, 5++ to shooting 6 wounds for total 5x6=30 pts=325
loaded 25 kabal RF re-roll 1's pts=150
Total 475 pts
Thats 100 RF shoots BS 3, re=roll 1's wounding 4+ unless vehicle

3X FS Raiders(with rack) 17" move, re-roll 1's only if archon close, no -1 to hit, 5++ 10 wounds 3x10=30 pts=270
loaded 30 kabal RF re-roll 1's, 6's=2 hits (with the rack) pts=180
Total 450 pts (save 25 pts)
Thats 60 RF shoots BS 3, re-roll 1's and 6's count twice wounding 4+ except vehicle
and 9 shots with disentigrator canon (equal to another ravager)

BTW I have had T.O.'s rule both ways on the re-roll 1's once my guys are out of the boat. the last sentence is slightly unclear. "such models" could mean any model with FS or could mean models embarked. How do most folks you play rule it? (i always give my opponent the first way at the beginning of match and if they don't agree we ask T.O right away so I know for rest of that tourney!
Back to top Go down
Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

Posts : 1168
Join date : 2017-09-12

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 03:52

You don't re-roll 1s to hit with Rapid Fire weapons when Flayed Skull units are on the ground, only if they're embarked or can Fly.
Back to top Go down
Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1130
Join date : 2015-12-06

Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 22:34

Yup second that, it's clearly only units that can themselves fly, or units that are in a transport why the fly keyword (so all our transports), that get the rerolls.

The +1 to hit and reroll charge/advance rolls for kabalite warriors sadly mean absolutely nothing. Kabalite warriors in melee are dead, pretty much simple as that, any half decent assault unit will kill them. The +6 fnp on vehicles is really the only reason to have black heart trait wise, and even in that case you're usually talking an extra wound or two at best on a relatively light vehicle. It's not gonna make a huge difference.

Flayed skull on the other hand is a significant increase in your offensive power. Kabalites in transports don't get the reroll 1s from the archon's aura, so being near him doesn't matter, nor do all your transports want to be bunched up around an archon for reroll 1s. They need mobility, and flayed skull gives you all of that- you get the increased accuracy all the time, and even more movement speed. The fact that kabalites on foot don't get the rerolls barley matters, if you're running a transport heavy army list, kabalites that are outside of their transport live for a turn at best. I could honestly own 5-10 kabalites and never need to own more models because of how quickly they always die after their transport goes down. Reroll 1s and the increased movement would already be enough to justify flayed skull in my mind, but ignore cover is just the icing on the cake. Poison already doesn't like heavily armored targets, marines in cover with a +2 is what splinter rifles absolutely hate. Guardsmen with a +4 isn't great either. Enter ignore cover, never worry about that again and be more efficient at killing everything that tries to hide in some ruins. Especially in this sort of list with no melee units to go after entrenched enemy units in cover, you want to ignore it.

As for venoms vs raiders, have to say I prefer venoms for kabalite warriors. It's really just for the extra poison shots they bring to the list. Raiders are not bad, and you do get more transport room for kabalite warriors per point, but I really like having all those poison shots from the venom, they will output more than the unit inside will. Plus a natural -1 to hit is awesome, sure a single venom with only 6 wounds isn't super tough even with the -1, but 4-5 venoms, plus ravagers plus whatever else you have is a lot of units for your opponent to deal with. I also don't think it always has to be an either or choice, I sometimes take say 4 venoms plus 1-2 raiders if I just want to load up on some extra kabalite warrior units.

_________________
The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors...
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Escalation tourney  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Escalation tourney    Escalation tourney  I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Escalation tourney
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: