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 Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising

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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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Join date : 2017-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2019, 22:59

@AzraeI wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@krayd wrote:
@Archon_91 wrote:
Well that article shows the GW does listen to the complaints they get (especially when the unit/units never see play in any capacity except in the "I just want to play them for laughs" fun lists), Drahzars buff ability was completely useless when the first codex first came out and everyone basically said it should be +1 to wound and not hit and now it is, so there is a chance they will listen to the other complaints/suggestions and make change other units as well

Though it is odd that Jain Zar doesn't appear to have an invul save of any kind (unless they neglected to mention it for some reason). The lack of invul saves on most phoenix lords has been a long-time issue with them.

Maybe Craftworlders don't complain as loudly as we do Razz

why should they?

There's a lot of trash in the Craftworlds Codex and their model line. They have some great units, but when was the last time that you saw Striking Scorpions, the Avatar of Khaine or Fire Dragons on the table?

Hell, with this release we'd be rightfully furious if GW had done nothing for Drazhar except replaced one of his rules with an almost always inferior alternative and tried to pass that off as an amazing new release for him. Yet that's exactly what they've done with Jain Zar.
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Gizamaluke
Sybarite
Gizamaluke

Posts : 370
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2019, 23:15

Hopefully since they're changing some stratagems for DE they'll knock the incubi Ynnari strat down to 1cp (or remove entirely and let them have SFD) then I can take incubi in my Ynnari detachment and Drazhar in my DE detachment instead of another archon to provide +1 to wound rolls
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2015-12-06

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 04:59

Yeah even if Drazhar stays at 120pts, things are looking up for him. He's not amazing, but 2 damage base and the +1 to wound aura makes him respectable, and is real solid buff for incubi. If incubi go down in pts and/or get a decent buff, it would be solid to run Drazhar alongside a block of incubi.

As far as Ynarri is concerned, I'm hoping GW takes the opportunity of Phoenix Rising to rebalance their rules a tad, maybe change the cost of some strats and such. Whether that happens or not though, not too confident.

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Karr4x
Hellion
Karr4x

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Join date : 2018-04-07

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 07:43

I'm quite satisfied. Now Drazhar really does pack a punch.
If you make him your Warlord with Hatred Eternal, he can destroy a Predator tank. And if he is not interrupted (and killed) between his two fight phases, he can murder things like Lysander or the Iron Father in a single turn even without Hatred Eternal.
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DevilDoll
Wych
DevilDoll

Posts : 506
Join date : 2013-08-16

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 08:10

Wait... I think I'm missing something
If drazhar charges does he get to attack twice before any enemies have a chance to fight back except for interrupting...?
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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 08:14

Yes, but the opponent can interrupt you spending 2CP.
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DevilDoll
Wych
DevilDoll

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 08:59

Wow OK I was under the impression he gets to attack again at the end of the fight phase...
Hes actually pretty good I like him
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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron

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Location : Hunting Xenos

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 09:24

It's more he gets to attack first, because he charged, and then after all charging units are finished, and it's your turn to pick a unit to fight, you pick him.

He can very easily fight twice consecutively, but not always. You might want to choose something to fight before if you already had stuff in combat.

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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 09:41

No he still charging, so you can choose him twice before passing to another charging unit
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yellabelly
Sybarite
yellabelly

Posts : 344
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 10:13

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
I get the point already. My opinion is not wanted here.

Of course your opinion is welcome here dude. By all means, critique away regardless of what I think. It's your right to do so, just as it's my right to disagree with you. If we all thought the same, the forum wouldn't be very interesting would it?
I didn't mean it to seem like a personal attack, so apologies if I was over-zealous yesterday.

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Elfric
Hellion
Elfric

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 12:43

So if you use Onslaught on Drazhar that applies to both times he fights. So he's pumping out potentially 16-24 attacks? Providing he doesn't miss on his hit rolls
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 14:32

Depends which version of the demi-klaives you are using, but yes with onslaught he can pump out a lot of attacks, and you get a pretty good return on the cp investment considering it applies to both times he fights. Not sure on how many attacks it is on average, but 16 ish sounds about right if you're using dual blades, 24 sounds too high to me.

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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 14:53

If you roll 12 attacks, with Onslaught they are just 12 hits. Nothing more.
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 14:55

Right for some reason I just assumed everything hits, that's obviously not right. Regardless the stratagem still is a strong buff to Drazhar's attack output.

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GreyArea
Kabalite Warrior
GreyArea

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 15:21

If they drop him by 20 points I think he'd have a decent place in a few army comps. To be fair even at 120 I'd play him for the lolz. Rule of cool has to be obeyed and with these buffs he doesn't look like he'll be holding you back in a casual game anymore.

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 15:42

I could see Drazhar maybe dropping down to 110 or 100, but even if he doesn't I'd have no problem taking him in your standard game. Maybe not tournaments, but not every unit we have needs to be top tier tournament competitive.

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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 15:47

Rumour is there are no points changes at all in Phoenix Rising, if they're due to happen at all they'll be in Chapter Approved.
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 15:57

I suppose that's not so bad if Incubi get a slight bump.

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amishprn86
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amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 16:07

Honestly, Jain Zar is straight up worst unless she gets Exarch powers as well, idk what they were thinking with her...

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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 17:25

Honestly, in my opinion at 120 is good now. Really good. At less he will.be a beast, and we don't need more Feirros in this game.
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 17:44

@amishprn86 wrote:
Honestly, Jain Zar is straight up worst unless she gets Exarch powers as well, idk what they were thinking with her...

Yeah I find it kinda odd, I don't really see why they needed to get rid of disarming strike. She wouldn't have been too strong if she kept that, and gained storm of silence. Drazhar in comparison got a really good buff, his weapon stats went up, gained lethal precision and his aura improved.

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Elfric
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Elfric

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 18:29

Cerve if Drazhar uses dual blades he is 6 attacks Base. If he activates Onslaught and he is 100% hit rate that makes him 12 attacks. Then he gets to fight again, Onslaught is still on effect and he will be able to repeat. Even if both times he fights he misses once, that's 10 attacks on average and fighting twice would take him up to 20 attacks
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nerdelemental
Kabalite Warrior
nerdelemental

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 18:45

Onslaught still only triggers on a 6, right? So he's not likely to get more than 7 hits per swing average, right?
Still good, but not reliably 16-20.

Or what'm I missing?
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GreyArea
Kabalite Warrior
GreyArea

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 18:49

@Elfric wrote:
Cerve if Drazhar uses dual blades he is 6 attacks Base. If he activates Onslaught and he is 100% hit rate that makes him 12 attacks. Then he gets to fight again, Onslaught is still on effect and he will be able to repeat. Even if both times he fights he misses once, that's 10 attacks on average and fighting twice would take him up to 20 attacks

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but I don't think that's right. He has 6 attacks with the dual blades, onslaught means his 1s are cancelled on average by double hitting 6s so average 100% hit rate. Then he fights again bringing his hits to 12.

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GreyArea
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GreyArea

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2019, 18:51

24 hits on average with D2 and a chance to double dmg would make him a knight killer!

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