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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 15:06

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
But thats the point, with no hero support (re-rolls from archon) no obsessions, no other buffs other than 1 overcosted named character that doesnt work after turn 3, 1/2 the stratagems wont effect them, why take them over any other melee unit?

But this is part of the problem, isn't it?

We're trying to fix one problem with the codex whilst ignoring all the related issues.

Its easier to fix a datasheet than rewrite a book. GW is indeed rewritting codexs but so far no Xeno ones, only chaos and SM.

But also it is a stat problem too, you can look at many other elite melee units and see Incubi are by far the worst of them all given the points (give or take 1-2pts per model).

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 17:23

Yeah let's be realistic here, the first psychic awakening campaign book may give incubi a bit of a boost with a pts reduction, better stats and/or something new like klaivex upgrades, but it's unlikely to rework large aspects of the army.

I don't think anyone would disagree that incubi are in need of some help. I'm just trying to temper my expectations and not expect a massive change that will suddenly make incubi the best melee unit in the codex. Plus we could be a long way off from actually seeing their rules, could easily be a month plus before we can get a real look at how they may change.

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Azdrubael
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 19:18

I just had to

Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Bswzqv10

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 19:35

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah let's be realistic here, the first psychic awakening campaign book may give incubi a bit of a boost with a pts reduction, better stats and/or something new like klaivex upgrades, but it's unlikely to rework large aspects of the army.

I don't think anyone would disagree that incubi are in need of some help. I'm just trying to temper my expectations and not expect a massive change that will suddenly make incubi the best melee unit in the codex. Plus we could be a long way off from actually seeing their rules, could easily be a month plus before we can get a real look at how they may change.

did vigilus give the marines new points costs? i dont think it did
all they got was a few stratagems, or am I wrong?
the psychic awakening will most likely be on the same level: new models and new stratagems
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CurstAlchemist
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 20:21

@Azdrubael wrote:
I just had to

Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Bswzqv10

That works to well.
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DevilDoll
Sybarite
DevilDoll

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 20:26

even the ribbons seem to be correct now
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AzraeI
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AzraeI

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 20:43

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Archon_91
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 20:54

... wait ... do klaivex have access to demiklaives in the codex? I thought it was an index weapon option, like blasters for the archon, I guess this means they are giving back weapon options to units ... we might see more weapon choices in the future, who knows
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DevilDoll
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 21:14

@AzraeI wrote:
https://warhammerart.com/shop/warhammer-40000/alien-xenos/drahzar-vs-jain-zar/
new artwork

wait... is this official? i mean did GW commission this piece, if yes it says alot about what to expect right there
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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 21:29

@AzraeI wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah let's be realistic here, the first psychic awakening campaign book may give incubi a bit of a boost with a pts reduction, better stats and/or something new like klaivex upgrades, but it's unlikely to rework large aspects of the army.

I don't think anyone would disagree that incubi are in need of some help. I'm just trying to temper my expectations and not expect a massive change that will suddenly make incubi the best melee unit in the codex. Plus we could be a long way off from actually seeing their rules, could easily be a month plus before we can get a real look at how they may change.

did vigilus give the marines new points costs? i dont think it did
all they got was a few stratagems, or am I wrong?
the psychic awakening will most likely be on the same level: new models and new stratagems

Some model did receive pts rebalances and pretty significant overhauls in how they function, primarily thinking of the dark apostle for chaos space marines in vigilius ablaze. Got the whole sort of litanies of hate overhaul that the marine chaplain got in the new marine codex, so there is precedent for a complete overhaul of an old unit. Similar case with obliterators, they went significantly up in pts but they also got a huge boost, going from assault 4 to 6 on their guns and some other buffs as well.

That art piece says it's from last year, don't think it's prove of things to come. However, Jan Zair vs Dzahar certainly seems possible given both of their respective units are getting updates.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 21:30

@DevilDoll wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
https://warhammerart.com/shop/warhammer-40000/alien-xenos/drahzar-vs-jain-zar/
new artwork

wait... is this official? i mean did GW commission this piece, if yes it says alot about what to expect right there

they also shared this artwork (plus some others) on twitter, maybe its still up
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dumpeal
Hekatrix
dumpeal

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 17 2019, 23:22

It's a 2018 art piece. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Ollie
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 00:02

I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the stat line almost identical and just gave them a new rule under there unit entry.
Double damage when charging or mortal wounds on 6's would be my guess.

Also he is so meme-able...Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Drukah11[/url]
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 00:41

@dumpeal wrote:
It's a 2018 art piece. Sorry to disappoint you.

That's just when it got commissioned. Has it appeared anywhere before now? It's certainly not in our Codex.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 00:55

@Azdrubael wrote:
I just had to

Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Bswzqv10

That works far too well.

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AzraeI
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AzraeI

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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 01:03

@Burnage wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
It's a 2018 art piece. Sorry to disappoint you.

That's just when it got commissioned. Has it appeared anywhere before now? It's certainly not in our Codex.

i cant remember seeing it anywhere else
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Serpent Fly
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 06:51

First reaction was: Awesome new Incubi! I cant wait to see what rules updates they get (Banshees got some so why not!)

Scrolls down: Oh Demi-Klaives.... and they are the same.... great

Personally I prefer the 3rd ed Punishers to the modern Klaives on incubi aesthetically. And I dislike the Demiklaives more. It just feels so clunky and silly to me. I have 10 converted plastic incubi already, they may not be as beautiful as the new sculps but they do as good of a job collecting dust on the sidelines. Unless the next article gives some other buffs to incubi as a whole, I cant see them being included in games much more than now.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 11:29

@Serpent Fly wrote:

Personally I prefer the 3rd ed Punishers to the modern Klaives on incubi aesthetically. And I dislike the Demiklaives more. It just feels so clunky and silly to me.

I know what you mean, actually.

Klaives have a nice aesthetic but they really make no sense as weapons. The handles on the blade are completely antithetical to the function of bladed weapons. You could *maybe* use the lower blade-handle for purposes of half-swording . . . except that the Klaive has no point. scratch

Demiklaives look even more awkward, not helped by the Klaivex wielding them by the stupid blade-handles.

Updated Punishers would probably be a great deal more functional. Indeed, even Demi-Punishers would probably be more practical. Of course, they'd also look less unique/alien so it depends whether you prefer form or function.

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TheBaconPope
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 14:52

How do you even swing a Klaive? Do you let go of the bladed handle? Or do you just kinda rotate your whole body and hang onto it? The aesthetic of the weapon is top notch, but trying to think how it works on a practical level is headache inducing.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 15:17

I think you use it like a bulky Katana with the handles along the blade allowing it to be "half-sworded" without the power field along the blade being an issue. That is the best I can come up with, it suffers in my opinion from the rule of cool instead of practicality. I prefer the Punisher as well.

The image in the current codex by the Incubi index comes off more to me as someone carrying the weapon not someone who is going to go into battle but then again how many artists hired by GW know anything about fighting or care because rule of cool...
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 15:56

@AzraeI wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
It's a 2018 art piece. Sorry to disappoint you.

That's just when it got commissioned. Has it appeared anywhere before now? It's certainly not in our Codex.

i cant remember seeing it anywhere else

I'm almost sure I already saw it on the internet. It's not from a codex or a similar official book. It's just an artist creation
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 18 2019, 15:59

Cool looking weapons>practicality. In a universe where some soldiers would rather charge forward with a chainsaw made into a sword instead of shooting a lascannon, I don't think too much about how things work.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 28 2019, 19:36

Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Nzmhxw1

So this banner seems kind of interesting. Are we getting the reveal that Drazhar = Arhra?
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Karr4x
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 28 2019, 23:22

@Burnage wrote:
Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 Nzmhxw1

So this banner seems kind of interesting. Are we getting the reveal that Drazhar = Arhra?

I'm convinced we'll get that reveal, yes. And I seriously hope that it will be accompanied by rules buff and points reduction.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising   Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising - Page 6 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 29 2019, 02:09

Drazhar could be Arhra, could not be. Either way I'll be happy if we get an awesome model with a boost to his in game stats/abilities.

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